Sub Classes Specific items

[Joel]

Well, lack of ideas for some there :
Here the sub-classes :

Shalafi :
Battle Mage.
Elementalist.
Enchantress.

Chaos
Tormentor.
Corruptor.
Infernal Denizen.

Knight
Templar.
Enlightened.
Inquisitor.

Invader
Kenzain.
Cainites.
Shadowlings.

Battlerager
Blade Dancer.
Mageslayer.
Berserker.

Hunter
Scout.
Guardian.
Archer.

For details, you can check the website.

Every sub classes need an armor like and a weapon like specific items.
All items are spawning with ONE specific bonus to the item and
various subclasses skills bonus.

Here's some :

Shalafi - Elementalist :
Armor : Elemental Amulet (adds elemental resist)
Weapon : Elemental Orb (adds elemental dmg)

Shalafi - Battle Mage :
Armor : Velvet Link
Weapon : Athame (dagger like)


Let's the madness begin

[Matthias]

Hunter-archer (yes I know it's pretty easy to find ideas):
Bow of the Gods (based on magic damage no elemental not too much physical

Invader-Cainites:
I propose a set based on them:
Mephistopheles' Secret: ring with Cainite powers
Mephistopheles' Knowledge: can charms be set items? if not then it would be a shield with much extra mana/skills
Mephistopheles' Hand: weapon
Mephistopheles' Soul: amulet with powers concerning the fact there is a demon's sould in it
Mephistopheles' Mouth: a helm adding charges of and/or + to skills concerning seduction and convincing
Mephistopheles' Fury: armor with great close combat drawbacks and great extra stuff for mana skills and such. a bit like what they tried with Vipermage

I'll see what others post before continuing. That's my

EDIT: I hope someone will notice my edit... Anyway all I wanted is to represent the 'Faust' part of what the Cainites did: sacrificed their humanity for the sake of a dream.

[Joel]

... well, nice ideas, I'll keep them somewhere.
But here I need BASIC ITEMS to give to each sub-classes
like rod for sorceress or horned helm for barb in D2LoD.
Uniques and Sets will come later.

More exactly :
I need 2-3 items per subclasses each in 3 levels
So a total of

6*3*(2 to 3)*3 = 108-162 items

[Char]

well, lets start this ONLY covers the armor item types as i am not familiar enough with all the subclasses to think of weapons for them. armor is easier.

Shalafi :
armor
amulet (or elemental shield)
circlet
automagics: +enr or +mana, +fastcast

Chaos
crowns (in rememberance of the undead crown)
low defense armor (cape / rags - like)
sash
automagics: +enr/mana, +fastcast

Knight
a holy armor
a holy helm-like item
shields (of course)
automagics: +max resist all (low), +absorb (as the paladin was always the one who had lots of resistances, my pala armors grant +max resist all, too), +resistances, +to block
(+to hit would only fit on gloves)

Invader
for this one, i think of belts or gloves (automagic lifeleech). helms are okay, as well as armor-like pelts (reduce damage taken automagic).
automagics: lifeleech as stated, reduce damage as stated, reduce damage% (?), no further ideas

Battlerager
boots are a must. automagic +str. helms are nothing that does really fit i think. which would fit is a ring that can only be worn in one of the slots (or you would have to lower the automagics on them to balance the fact that the batllerager can wear two of them). belts are nice, too, and "battle fists", some kind of gauntlets that grant +physical damage. shields are nice if there is a subclass that can make use of them (would be nice )
automagics: +damage, .... well no idea, in my mind the battlerager (barbarian) is close to the invader (druid) as both are melee chars. perhaps the invader should have pet-enhancing automagics on his items?


Hunter
hunters have to have gloves as specific items. (+dex or IAS)
armors / helms / shields dont really work for hunters in my opinion, so you should give them belts (no idea for automagic) and either rings that only can be worn in one of the slots or amulets or boots (faster run / walk or sth like that).
automagics: +dex/AR, +manaleech perhaps. IAS or faster run / walk are nice, too.



as we have six armor types (torso, gloves, boots, belt, shield and helm), and six character classes, this seems to somehow fit. you could make it so that there are three subclass-specific shields, three subclass-specific helms and so on. following this, my personal result is:

shalafi: helm, armor, shield
chaos: belt, armor, helm
hunter: gloves, boots, belts
battlerager: boots, gloves, shield
invader: belt, gloves, helm
knight: shield, helm, armor


pick from all the ideas, they are free to discussion

EDIT: low lvl automagic auras are a nice idea, too.

[Aedeon]

For two of the invader sub classes you could have items based on thier shape shifts, such as differnt vampire claws/fangs or some sort of shadow armor.

For the Enlightened subclass of the the Knight I was seeing them as a sort of monk, so they could have a class specific good melee staff or gloves/gauntlets that are used as melee weapons, and then maybe some sort of tattoo armor.

The Battlerager blade dancer should definatly get some sort of katana, probably two handed, or two duel wielded, and then maybe some sort of sash like belt.

I'll come back with more ideas in the morning.

[Xcolibri]

Are you searching more for names or really for the itemtypes?
Anyway, some suggestions from me. Mostly weapons, since Char already covered armour (although they are still kind of vague).

Shalafi:
Elementalists: Crystal spheres to focus the element. +skills
Battle Mage: 1h-sword fits well here. Or some kind of doubleblade, which also can be thrown. Maybe let it only look like it can be thrown, though, cause of the magical throw skills. +ar, +ias
Conjurator: Rod (with animal head?) +skills

Hunter:
Scouts: Wood- or stonemade. Spear? Martial arts (gloves)? Boomerang? +dmg-demons, +ar
Guardians: You write claws, which fits well. Staffs would be nice, too (like described in my former thread). +defense, + vitality
Archer: Well, bows +dexterity

Chaos:
Tormentor: Wand with skull. Or skull only (okay, there are skulls as shields for Necros in D2 but bone shields are fitting to Tormentors for the shield slot, too. So you could use the skull as a weapon) +skills +mana
Corruptor: Some kind of alchemical bottle +mana, +poison damage
Infernal Denizen: Pentagramm artifact +skills

Knights:
Templars: Martial Arts, you say. Iron Fists? +crushing blow +vitality
Enlightened: see Aedeon. In fact, quite similar to the Templars, which could also go with a staff (clerical spells). Take either one.
Inquisitor: Scepter or sword. +dmg-undead +magic damage
These weapons fit their theme. Still, you might want to change the weapons a bit, they are not really knight-like, are they? I'd like to see polearms, for example. At the moment, I suggested polearms for the Mage Slayer, too, but a MS could go with any weapon.

Battlerager:
Blade Dancers: yeah, Katana is cool, Aedeon +ias, -enemy defense
Mage Slayers: Polearms look cool. Since they are so anti-magic (->kind of primitive), maybe hammers? Hmm...
Berserkers: Axes are great here +open wounds, +strength

Invaders:
(also see Aedeon, whose ideas are repeated here)
Kenzain: Daggers, as you wrote. Cool. +poison dmg + deadly strike
Cainites: Vampire claws/teeth +open wounds +life steal
Shadowlings: Shift form weapons +life (?)

Now we have a better basis for discussion, I hope.

[Joel]

Some mix up of various ideas so far :

Shalafi:
Elementalists:
weapon : Crystal spheres to focus the element. +elemetal dmg
armor :

Battle Mage:
weapon : the double blade is nice I thnik that the inifite 'htrow' attribute is nice too with +ar.
armor : the Velevet link, a soft chain mail with +fast hit recovery.

Enchantress:
weapon : Staff/Rod (with animal head?) +block ? Enchantress as three staff related skills.
armor : circlet with charm charge ?

Hunter:
Scouts:
weapon : Wood/Stone Spear-Boomerang +dmg-demons, +ar
armor :

Guardians:
weapon : claws
armor :

Archer :
weapon : bow of course with ias or ar.
armor : gloves with ias ? dex ?

Chaos:
Tormentor:
weapon : Skull mace or skull alone ? +mana
armor : bone shield with rep-dur & mana-kill ?

Corruptor:
weapon : Some kind of alchemical bottle +mana, +poison damage. << to strengthen !
armor : some mask like the old middle age doctors (whitez mask with a peck)

Infernal Denizen:
weapon : something devilish ... a fork ?
armor : Pentagramm amulet

Knights:
Templars: Martial Arts, you say. Iron Fists? +crushing blow +vitality
Enlightened: see Aedeon. In fact, quite similar to the Templars, which could also go with a staff (clerical spells). Take either one.
Inquisitor: Scepter or sword. +dmg-undead +magic damage
These weapons fit their theme. Still, you might want to change the weapons a bit, they are not really knight-like, are they? I'd like to see polearms, for example. At the moment, I suggested polearms for the Mage Slayer, too, but a MS could go with any weapon.

Battlerager:
Blade Dancers:
weapon : katana with red-ac
armor : a scabbard belt ?

Mage Slayers:
weapon : big polearm or hammer with knockback and +dmg
armor : ?

Berserkers:
weapon : Axes +open wounds
armor : some crude animal pelt ?

Invaders:
Kenzain:
weapon : Stiletto +deadly strike
armor : a cape to hide in shadow ?

Cainites:
weapon : Vampire claws/teeth +life steal ??? look strange
armor : ?

Shadowlings:
weapon : ?
armor : shadow cloak ?

Itemtypes are nice and so are names.
Will try to finish this quickly so, a new 10% mod will be complete

if you have question or doubt about the skill or the class just ask.

I repeat that all these items will have skill bonus AND a special automagic so do'nt repeat the +skills entry

[Xcolibri]

Some further comments (everything I won't comment on is great ^^)

Elementalists:
weapon : Crystal spheres to focus the element. +elemetal dmg

Will the elemental damage enhance the spells, too (what I doubt)? Otherwise, elemental damage is useless, an Elementalist won't enter melee, will they?
Elemental resists are nicer.

Enchantress:
Enchantress as three staff related skills.
armor : circlet with charm charge

I'm against charges, unless their skill level is quite high. You have to refill them and that can be expensive. Permanents bonus are better, in general. Also, other subclasses will use the charm charges.
I suggest a %max mana modifier.

Guardians:
weapon : claws

For claws, open wounds is nice. Maybe add +damage vs demons, too, that fits the description best. Even if the hunter already has that. Heh, +life after demon kill is nice!

Corruptor:
weapon : Some kind of alchemical bottle +mana, +poison damage. << to strengthen !

If you want it improved, give it some resists. Or some mana after kill, like the tormentor. Give the tormentor 'reduce magical damage' on his armour instead.

Infernal Denizen:
weapon : something devilish ... a fork ?
armor : Pentagramm amulet

Hihi, a fork is ingenious. Take it
Add +absorb fire 2-5%
+%max mana on amulet

Blade Dancers:
armor : a scabbard belt ?

Nice. +%max life?

Berserkers:
armor : some crude animal pelt ?

Fine, too. +ias, +damage

Kenzain:
armor : a cape to hide in shadow ?

- light radius (no real bonus, but stylish). +gold find

Shadowlings:
armor : shadow cloak ?

Something rune covered. Or turn it ghostly all the way, it only displays as a vague scheme. +resists or +energy

Some missing armours:
Hunter: leather made +fast run
Guardians: tunic-like resist physical 5-10%
Mage Slayer: sth. from metal (metal hinders magic), res-all
Cainites: dark, half-transparent robe, +life

If you lack ideas for bonuses, you could give on-struck skills on armours, too.

It's to consider that +attribute bonuses are greatly different than +life/mana, since they will give you more skills!

[Joel]

welll all seems nice, just a few comments :

* As you said +stat is MORE VALUABLE than simple +life/+mana due to the inherent skills bonus they may give. I prefer NOT having them as automagic or only a simple +1 to ONLY one stat at a time.

What about having 1 armor and 1 weapon per sub class, each coming with 3 automagic level ?

the first level will be for items of lvl < 30, the second for item with lvl < 60 adn last for item of lvl > 60. So the item will stay attractive even at high level. or should I go into the 3 differents items per lvl and mimick the elite/exceptionnal stuff from LoD ?

it could be nice if the various automagic are all different, even if this means to have style only bonus

[Xcolibri]

it could be nice if the various automagic are all different, even if this means to have style only bonus

Yeah, agree. Sometimes it's hard to decide, though (mana, life, resists). But you are right, indeed.
For resists, you can give some items resist for one element only.

After a quick look, I've found some modifiers we haven't used yet:
- damage taken to mana
- %defense
- defense vs. missiles
- stamina regeneration
- crushing blow
- increased blocking speed

That's something we can work with

the first level will be for items of lvl < 30, the second for item with lvl < 60 adn last for item of lvl > 60. So the item will stay attractive even at high level. or should I go into the 3 differents items per lvl and mimick the elite/exceptionnal stuff from LoD ?

I didn't get the last phrase.
However, three levels of automagic seems fair.
Another idea is automagic per level. So +2 life / level, for example.
Of course, if depends on the attribute. No leveled open wounds

[Joel]

for my last sentence. I was saying that should I have only 2 specific items with various automagic that get stronger with ilvl or should i have three version of each specific items with different name and properties ?

Like having :

elemental orb with 3 level of automagic

or

Elemental Shard - Elemental orb - Elemntal Wand of lvl
1 - 30 - 60 and different stats ??

[Char]

different stats seem to be appropriate, at least for weapons, as noone would continue to use the low-lvl weapons with low damage any more as a battlerager.
you have to be careful btw: making the subclass-specific weapons deal not enough damage will make nobody use them, making them too strong will make anyone use them (and noone will continue to use "normal" weapons).

[Brother Laz]

And it gets even trickier with uniques. A unique in an important slot that is even a bit too strong will bend the whole char around it. Who uses elite armors in CLoD anymore?

Powerful unique gloves and boots are OK IMO, if you designate one or two slots as uber unique slots it keeps uniques interesting but only if those slots don't really make much difference anyway. Frostburns are OK IMO, because gloves can hardly make or break a char and even with powerful unique gloves you still won't pwn (unless they have that ridiculous 350% damage vs demons on them, or are from 1.07 and have 50% fire absorb...).

But avoid making uniques powerful or even decent in the slots that matter such as helm, weapon, shield and ammy. It'll break your mod faster than you can say 'shako'.

Btw: I do think class-specific items should be different from ordinary ones: that's what they are there for, right? But don't make them better, just different. +Skills automagic at the cost of no +mana/+mana per kill affixes on them, for example. +Damage automagic but no leech affixes. As long as the difference is not magic find, because you know what will happen then.

[Joel]

And it gets even trickier with uniques. A unique in an important slot that is even a bit too strong will bend the whole char around it. Who uses elite armors in CLoD anymore?

hmmm I do

Powerful unique gloves and boots are OK IMO, if you designate one or two slots as uber unique slots it keeps uniques interesting but only if those slots don't really make much difference anyway. Frostburns are OK IMO, because gloves can hardly make or break a char and even with powerful unique gloves you still won't pwn (unless they have that ridiculous 350% damage vs demons on them, or are from 1.07 and have 50% fire absorb...).

Obviously, the uniques items is the stuff that make me shake in my boots

But avoid making uniques powerful or even decent in the slots that matter such as helm, weapon, shield and ammy. It'll break your mod faster than you can say 'shako'.

Well, it depends ... many of my unique are nice to very good but you can't build a build around them if you see what I mean.

Btw: I do think class-specific items should be different from ordinary ones: that's what they are there for, right? But don't make them better, just different. +Skills automagic at the cost of no +mana/+mana per kill affixes on them, for example. +Damage automagic but no leech affixes. As long as the difference is not magic find, because you know what will happen then.

So you think I should have either +skill or +other bonus but not the two simultaneously ???

[Brother Laz]

Btw: I do think class-specific items should be different from ordinary ones: that's what they are there for, right? But don't make them better, just different. +Skills automagic at the cost of no +mana/+mana per kill affixes on them, for example. +Damage automagic but no leech affixes. As long as the difference is not magic find, because you know what will happen then.

So you think I should have either +skill or +other bonus but not the two simultaneously ???

I meant that your class-specific item would have one of two very desirable bonuses (+skills, hp%, mana%, dmg%, dmg-max and stuff) but cannot spawn some other very desirable bonus as affix. That way people will choose one or the other and neither will be 'better' than the other, it'd be like asking if Windforce is better than Oculus.

Newbies without great eq will use the class-specific one because its automagic bonuses appear on most or all items of that type, while the 'banned' affix only appears on a few rare/magic items. If they really need that affix, they'll switch item types when they find one. Otherwise, they stick to and upgrade their class-specific item type.

[Joel]

so, for example, if the Enchantress Circlet give +mana, they shopuld not spawn with any affix that give +mana ??

or am I wrong ?

[Char]

i think what he meant is something like your enchanters circlets will spawn with +mana, but spawning +hp affixes (for example) on them is impossible.

[TheRipper]

im guessing the invader is an assassin
Invader

Armor= cape
Helm= ninja type hood thing that covers the mouth
weapon= ninja sword or katana

and a set could be called something like Garmets of the Shinobi

Shinobi's poisend blade=Katana
Shinobis stealth=cape

and some other stuff i cant think of right now[/u]

[Joel]

Hmmm nie idea ... I never tought of the Kenzain as a ninja but the theme could fit ...

( ... thinking about testing Magical Shuriken as skills for the Kenzain ... )

Well, some names for some items coudl be nice, I'll post a sum up of
the idea I'll keep.

[Brother Laz]

If you can wait a few years, use pierce-(elem) for mage items. Mages need something to boost their damage that is not related to stacked +to skills.

[TheRipper]

Magical shurikens would be really cool but youd have to increase the dmg if magical shurikens is gonna be blade fury the only reason i didnt use blade fury on d2x is because of the dmg otherwise it would have been my main skill

[Joel]

For the damage, well, don't worry all damages scale have been remade from scratch ... to be lower one.

and don't complain, that's the way I see balance.