balance

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Bloodtitan
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balance

Post by Bloodtitan » Wed Jun 08, 2005 1:09 pm

ok as one of the newest players of this mod i wanted to give some feedback.

i think that act5 i way too hard for certain character builds in all difficulties, mainly melees. i know and agree that act5 should be the toughest challenge but you know, there is such thing as overcorrection. my dunadan doesnt have a chance against all types of succubi and i really know how to skill chars. i am a diablo 1 and 2 veteran and i have mastered any mod so far, even the feared chaos empire.
these succubi even kill the barbarian hostages before i can free them. thats a joke. (valar difficulty)

i request magic damage to be reduced. i also want dragons damage to be cut half, though i dont know if the creators are still interested in improving this mod.

what i dont want is smart comments such as "dragons are easy if you know how to beat them". because thats wrong. there is a huge difference in "can be beaten" and "its easy", ok ?
same goes for succubi.

also, mercs die like ants in valar act 3 4 5. i dont know how you manage to keep your mercs alive. my mercenary is lvl 66 as i am and has got very fine elite rares and good stats (on paper). out of the city he doesnt stand anything but yrchs and other melee enemies however. i have read comments like "mercs are the bomb", "mercs are overpowered". i dont think i play the same mod as you do (did).


EDIT: you should realize that i want to address the creators and help improving this (other than what i mentioned) great mod. i am quite into modding myself and could easily do the adjustments i requested for my own copy of this mod.
Last edited by Bloodtitan on Thu Jun 09, 2005 7:27 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Bloodtitan » Sat Oct 07, 2006 11:38 am

i guess that's a no...

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Re: balance

Post by Myhrginoc » Sun Oct 08, 2006 8:22 pm

This mod is currently unsupported, as Varaya & Khan have headed to other arenas. The txt files are certainly available for your personal modification.
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Re: balance

Post by Elessar » Mon Oct 09, 2006 1:57 am

This is how I "easily" beat dragons with my lvl 88 Dunadan:

1.)Break up dragons until you have one alone
2.)Get Dragon against wall
3.)Smite Dragon (I only have lvl 5 Smite) several times
4.)Whenever you feel safe letting up on Smite, throw in a Vengeance or a Zeal. (Your merc will be attacking the entire time)
5.)Do steps 3 and 4 until the dragon is dead, then start back at 1 until all dragons are dead.

Northmen also have a stunning ability, Stun. Their tactic wouldn't be much different.

My lvl 85 Dark Elf has a tougher time with Dragons than my Dunadan, but most of the time she will get the job done with Mind Blast, her Merc, and her Shadow Master. Her real problem is that she doesn't have a Melee stun move.

Werebear Druids have 2 stuns, one in melee range.

I personally think Summoners have a harder time with Dragons since they have no stuns and can't teleport out of the way when the dragon chews through their army.


I made that comment about it being easy thinking, apparently naively, that people like to figure things out for themselves and hoping they would figure out how to do it, or barring that, rather than automatically dismissing it as a "smart comment" asking how I manage, since I am the one who obviously thinks it's easy (After all, it's easier to consider a person's tactics if you actually know them, right?). Here's how it's done. Your mileage may vary, but it's far from wrong since it has and still does work for me. If as a melee character I'm drinking more Mana than HP, I consider that easy, especially since both potions and the gold to buy them are incredibly readily available in this mod. Dragons in Tolkien's books are a formidable force when faced directly, and therefore so are the dragons here. You want tough? Morgoth's Inner Chamber is tough. The Werewolves are tough, because sometimes they can't be attacked at all. Dragons can be stunned. Dragons can be separated.


You have a point about the power of Succubi, but at this point I go into battle expecting I may die a couple of times to take them all out. Charge is your friend as a Dunadan. Fist of the Heavens doesn't hurt either, if only a point or two to encourage them to break up without dashing right into them. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

I assume Leap Attack/Whirlwind helps as a Northman, but I haven't spent much time as one.

My Dark Elf sends her Shadow Master in first, throws down traps, then Dragon Flights in, putting the Chaos Icebolts (3rd charge on Phoenix Strike) to the best use she may. Like all my characters, she retreats when she has to in order to survive, but she does kill them, and so does my Dunadan, and so does my Rohirrim, and so does my Summoner.


As for addressing the modmakers, Varaya and Khan have not posted here in quite some time. From my understanding, they made one last runthrough of bugs and adjustments when they updated to LoD v1.10 and had no intention of doing anything else with it unless some very serious bugs (or a very long list of smaller ones) came up. All you have here for feedback and assistance now is the community and the posts from the past. Even when they were around, I don't believe many, if any, complained too strongly about the power of dragons or succubi in the mod, and even the one time dragons were mentioned, I believe Khan gave the Tolkien response I gave above. Khan said a long time ago that some builds are going to have a harder time progressing than others. The fun in "strange" builds is supposed to be seeing how far you can get with it anyway.

So in the end, this is the final version of the Middle-Earth mod by Varaya and Khan, and has only been kept available through the graciousness of Eowyn for those of us who don't like to get new subscriptions, and more recently by the Phrozen Keep, who requires a subscription, but is no less appreciated.


Take care and good luck :samurai:
Elessar
Last edited by Elessar on Mon Oct 09, 2006 2:13 am, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: balance

Post by malice » Mon Oct 16, 2006 1:53 am

Not so sure about the dragons. I remember them being tough before but now the boss minion pack being tossed out just before entering the worldstone chamber seems unkillable for my dark elf (now level 35, still in normal diff).

I picked up a "prevents monster heal" claw and that works against the minion dragons (one at a time) but the boss one is a bit too tough to handle. He pretty much one-shots my merc and shadow master when he does the charge thing, and when I go back to town after chipping a bit of his health (1/8th) after finishing all my healing pots, he's back to full when I return despite the prevent heal claw.

They were tough in lodv1.09b but in this version I can't kill him, sad because I got the others figured out. If I'm doing this wrong then why do the other dragons die just fine :( My Rohirrim is almost there but I don't think she'll have too much problem since can use bow and run.
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Re: balance

Post by Elessar » Mon Oct 16, 2006 4:08 am

Sometimes my Dark Elf and Dunadan both have to just park the dragon boss and move on if he ends up with a bad combo of skills, like Multishot, Lightning enchanted, physical immune, etc. He pretty much is the toughest dragon my Dark Elf has to deal with in Valar diff, and that really is only because she has no real melee stun attack. You can move on without killing him, however, and since it's not that I can't kill dragons at all, I can live with that.

Usually if you go back to town, his health will reset as you've experienced, and sometimes if you go too far away from him it will reset as well. Your best bet if you're going to try the fight is to bring as many potions down with you as you think you'll need, setting up stockpiles on the ground if you think it's necessary. Mana potions especially are useful to use Mind Blast to keep him stunned. I keep some +traps items on hand for when I can't melee my foes.


I think Dragontail might be something you'll want to try since it has knockback, but again you'd be spamming it like Mind Blast and from what I've heard it doesn't do much direct damage (only the original kick damage to the target if memory serves). Try to keep your Shadow Master in his face to be attacked rather than your merc. Act 5 Mercs do have Stun, though, so if you have one and can get your merc to constantly do that (hehe, as if you could control that) it'll help (my Dark Elf uses an Act 2 Defiance Merc). Traps are good to use even if they're not very strong, as every little bit of damage helps (so long as he's not attacking and stealing HP anyway).

You're probably doing fine, and if you can kill the other dragons I'll assume you are, it's just that that dragon boss is tough, and Dark Elves having no melee stun doesn't make it easier. If you have to park him simply because you're not making headway, don't be ashamed to do so. You can always come back and try again. There's always the chance Morgoth will drop something to make it a bit easier :}


Take care :samurai:
I have this to say,.. No enemy has yet taken the Hornburg."
- "Helm's Deep" The Two Towers

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Post by malice » Mon Oct 16, 2006 11:56 am

No, see... this dragon boss is the minion pack before entering the worldstone chamber... therefore I have to kill him :( He doesn't have any mods (like multishot) that I remember, he's just a boss dragon. It takes like 10 traps to put a dent in his bar, hehe. I don't think that will help me.

I like that the mod stayed tough but doable all these years, but this dragon boss is a serious speedbump. I'll take your advice and go whack some other bosses in hopes that I get something good.
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Re: balance

Post by Elessar » Fri Oct 20, 2006 3:22 am

I've been able to park him. Just clear out one of the four corners on the level, throw up a town portal there, and have him follow you back to your tp. Go through the portal, run back down using the waypoint, and put up a new town portal. Once you go back into the area with the portal to the Worldstone chamber, Morgoth will go through and you will be able to follow. Enjoy your battle with Morgoth :}

In Maiar and Valar diff he gets mods. It's really fun when he gets an aura :}

Btw, that trick above works with any of those bosses. Once you get them out of the portal room, the boss is considered dealt with for all intents and purposes. There are times I've had to park the Balrog guy too (it can really be a mess when he's physical immune).


Take care :samurai:
Elessar
I have this to say,.. No enemy has yet taken the Hornburg."
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Re: balance

Post by malice » Mon Apr 16, 2007 4:31 am

I'm sorry it took so long to reply, I kinda got sidetracked (as always). I am playing Median mod currently, a little burned out on D2, but I will surely get around to V&K again as the years prove :)
Elessar";p="291912" wrote:Btw, that trick above works with any of those bosses. Once you get them out of the portal room, the boss is considered dealt with for all intents and purposes.
Thanks a lot, this is very useful information!
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