Random Tidbits: Life, Mana and Stam Gain + Main Stats Info

[Nefarius]

In vanilla we have the known abuse of vitality, that is, get your requirements (as low as possible with use of bonus from equipment et al.) and then put the rest in vitality.

MetalStorm comes with 5 core stats, rather then the vanilla 4. (Strength, Dexterity, Constitution=Vitality, Intelligence=Energy and Charisma)

Strength works the way you're used to, you gain damage from weapons and it's the key requirement stat, the amount of damage gained from strength investment is more potent then in vanilla. (vanilla adds a bonus of +1% ed (+1.1% for hammers) per point in strength). The MetalStorm bonus varies between the weapon types, but it as a rule of thumb, it's usually more then in vanilla. Item requirements are slightly harsher as they are based on a formula and depend directly on how powerful the base item is. When paired with the proper proficiency strength will offer a few more benefits, but no info about this yet

Dexterity the defense and attack rating gained from dex are more effective then in vanilla (defense also working when running) and the lack of a level based tohit formula make the stat more important, as you cannot rely on your level to mean anything, if you have low dexterity and thus also low total chance to hit, you will be missing, and you'll be doing that most of the time, even vs. the weaker foes. Like strength, dexterity offers a damage increase to weapons, and to more weapons then it does in vanilla, items with dex requirements are as a rule those that benefit also from dex as a damage factor. Again, paired with the proper proficiency dex will give you other benefits.

Constitution the main purpose of this stat is to give you life and stamina, and thus endurance, the way this is done is different from vanilla D2, as you'll be able to read further below.

Intelligence is the main requirement factor for using magic spells, you simply cannot cast a spell if you're too dumb to do it, sorry. The higher this, the effective the spells will be, this is independant from other factors that boost spells. The benefits are often not damage wise, the general effectivity of spells also increases. Intelligence is also the key to regenerating the mana pool, max mana has no important, if you have low base intelligence, your regen rate will be in the crapper. So, invest here to avoid running dry. The way mana is granted by this stat is different from vanilla, as you will read further below.

Charisma a new stat for D2, a standard in other RPGs, charisma comes into play when it comes to interaction with other creatures, also spells that depend on your ability to lead/give morale boosts to your allies, will become more effective with this. The same applies to charming spells. This, paired with intelligence, also allows you to get different options for some of the NPCs and is overally benefical when it comes to pricing issues (at least when dealing with certain npcs, some don't give a damn).

Now to how mana, life and stamina is earned, the direct investment points into these stats are considerably lower then the passive bonus, simply to avoid direct pumping abuse, so how does the passive bonus work?

Whenever you level up, the BASE value for con/int is retrieved and multiplied by 0.125, after this, a random value between 0 and the result (inc the result) is rolled. The static level bonus is added to this, and this amounts for the life/mana/stamina you earn at lvlup. Thus you get most of the benefit later and not immediately. This essentially means that if you wait until lvl 150 and then pump the stat with everything that remains, you'll recieve much less life/mana/stam then if you did so throughout the entire game in a balanced fashion (sure you can try and pump it from lvl1 onwards, but good luck with that )

An example, if you have 100 con and you level up, you will recieve life between LVLBONUS + rand(100 * 0.125 + 1).

Increasing the stat in a balanced fashion over the course of the game can yield a base life of around 2-2.5K, pumping it at high level, you'll usually end with 1-1.5K. (keep in mind this also accounts for stamina, which means you'll endure much less).

[Nameless]

That's just my opinion, but I abolutely hate the life/mana gain system you plan here. Back when we played AD&D, this was one of the first things we changed in our rules. You can do everything right with your char, but if you roll "1" for your life gain on level up three times in a row, then you can basically toss your fighter (at least as far as his fighting ability is concerned) if you roll "10" several times he will be WAY better. With 100 levelups in D2 it will probably even out more, but still... I dislike the idea that an otherwise good character could be pretty much ruined if you get bad rolls here.

Similar for increasing Vit (Con), it shouldn't matter if you pump it first or later, you should end up with the same amount of life. Or, at least, do the same thing with the other attributes, so you end up with a lower total damage bonus if you pump Str later than right from the start.

I do agree that the normal D2 setup where pretty much every build is max-Vit with just enough of the other stats to equip gear is bad. But that can be rectified much better by changing the way you gain life (e.g. give a bigger fixed amount on levelup to investing in Vit makes less difference) and/or giving bigger boni from investing in the other stats.

[Nefarius]

We came to a similar conclusion internally as to the random roll part, it's off on default settings --- people that want it may opt to turn it on.

Or, at least, do the same thing with the other attributes, so you end up with a lower total damage bonus if you pump Str later than right from the start.

Theres a few unmentioned aspects for the other stats and how increasing them behaves, probably they'll be effected by similar method. ( there is going to be a reflexes rating for dexterity that would increase similar to life/stam for vit etc ).

I do agree that the normal D2 setup where pretty much every build is max-Vit with just enough of the other stats to equip gear is bad. But that can be rectified much better by changing the way you gain life (e.g. give a bigger fixed amount on levelup to investing in Vit makes less difference) and/or giving bigger boni from investing in the other stats.

Yep, the normal D2 way of handling it is catastrophic, I've managed to make pure vit characters with top of the line equipment in v1.10 vanilla (legit barb with 10K hp after BO, no points in dex and str, yet could wear anything using +str/dex charms, with no real deficit on anything, no resistance cutoff due to natural resistances + quests etc...)

[SVR]

Dexterity the defense and attack rating gained from dex are more effective then in vanilla (defense also working when running) and the lack of a level based tohit formula make the stat more important, as you cannot rely on your level to mean anything, if you have low dexterity and thus also low total chance to hit, you will be missing, and you'll be doing that most of the time, even vs. the weaker foes.

Just a thought on Dex vs attack rating ...

When you miss more often even against weaker foes, there should be some factor for dex comparison.
If you fight a low dex monster you should hit more often ,as they can't out manouver you.
I don't know if monsters gain dex with level (or even have dex ) so this is all assumption.
If not, it's probably why Bliz tied ToHit to level.

[Nefarius]

The vanilla code will query dex for monsters too IIRC, but none of them has any, except for mercs, shadows and valks. My MonLvl.txt generator is working via virtual statpoint allocations so the monsters are quite near on their defense rating to what a player would have via dex allocation at this point (the % varies somewhat between different units of course).

[Drop_Dead]

I was just wondering what made you decide to make it so you still have defense while running?

I have nothing against it, was just curious on why you decided to do that with metalstorm.

[Nefarius]

It simply made no sense that it suddenly becomes 0 when you moved faster, despite being under 15 cm thick steel plate. Heavy armor reduces run speed and increases stamina drain, stamina is much more important in MetalStorm so a tradeoff from running still exists, just in a more realistic way. If you don't run active poison and similar health hazards (wounds etc) deal slightly less damage.

* In vanilla the drain and speed change comes only from the torso piece, MetalStorm uses a sum of all equipped armor for this, so the effect is much more visible now (in vanilla it is forgetable once you reach hell).

[kingpin]

It kinda make sense why Blizzard choose the way the did. This because the way Attack vs Defense interract. What I supposed Blizzard wanted to emulate / promote was that you had harder to defend yourself while you at same time are running (that part make somewhat sense). The second reason is to still use walk (but who actually did that in vanilla? ).

[Vendanna]

It kinda make sense why Blizzard choose the way the did. This because the way Attack vs Defense interract. What I supposed Blizzard wanted to emulate / promote was that you had harder to defend yourself while you at same time are running (that part make somewhat sense). The second reason is to still use walk (but who actually did that in vanilla? ).

No it doesn't make any sense, what it should reduce "running" is the dodge chance since you are already in motion and that makes hard to change directions, thus it would have reduced only the defense given by dex (neglible).

The armor is still in there, reducing your defense to 0 is a lame excuse to give penalty in a game in which you will spend more of your time running. Since as you said who will use walk?

Also, the way blizzard did it, Defense is totally useless since there are a lot of attacks that will ignore it (any magic missiles, minions smite, ETH rune bug before fixed)...

Count that they coded a Attacker versus defense per level making it so that if you are lower level you will be hit more irregardless of defense values... So yeah it maked sense...

[kingpin]

They used this as one of their features then they announced about D2 (or if it was an expansion feature). Now, this didn't exactly work out in the way they wanted it. The complete walk vs run is not well implemented. If you readed that announcement, you would see their reason. That you had less skill to defend yourself while you are running.

For a range attack it should been the opposite. Running target (harder to hit). For melee hit, I bet if you turn your back and start run. You get very easy beat down. As dodge isn't really part of combat system in vanilla besides for selected classes. It would be hard to motivate a reduces dodge chance in general.

[Nefarius]

As dodge isn't really part of combat system in vanilla besides for selected classes.

For practical reasons it actually was, the heavy armors were originally intended to absorb damage from hits you take, while the 'defense' rating was meant to be avoidance. Nontheless they screwed the former up (likely because they couldn't balance it properly) but they didn't remove the nonsensical "defense = 0 when you run hurr durr" {filtered}, blocking is penalized when you run as well, this at least makes sense as you dont have so much time to react (and it equally effects all attacks except aurae and smite). But no matter how you turn it, a heavy armor doesn't magically vanish when you move faster then your normal walking pace. If they still had avoidance and absorption in the game it would make perfect sense, but they don't, without it it makes no sense and never will.

[kingpin]

Talk about make sense. Since then would heavy armored guy run at all?

Ofc this is an action game. so there is alot thing's that doesn't make sense. Even the drain stamina part doesn't make sense from gameplay point of view. As it force you slow down.

[Nefarius]

It's more plausible then your armor magically turning into thin air. That aspect is taken care of though, considering you were supposed to lose alot more stamina and speed from having heavy equipment (shields got the settings similar to body armor, but the code ignores it). But yes, this is a game.