Scavenging and money sinks

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enkephalin07
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Scavenging and money sinks

Post by enkephalin07 » Sat Dec 01, 2007 7:16 pm

Scavenging is some pretty dull gameplay. Early game it's crucial for finding or buying what you need for survival, late game it just bloats you with cash that you wonder what the hell you're going to do with. But it's been a feature of RPG gameplay since the days of Commodore Vic-20, it's been a feature of Diku and LP Muds, which are the platform or influence on every RPG since, and will be featured in Bethesda's next release. Even the Japanese do this. I'd expect some groundbreaking to obviate that old playing paradigm, and it's possible they've already done it while continuing to export the same old {filtered}, just as Amsterdam exports Heineken because they know most Americans gladly drink {filtered}, and will pay premium for premium {filtered}.

My point? My primary point is that I'm too drunk to avoid venting the analysis (at least I'm not drinking Heineken.) But my uberprimary point is that challenges should result in substantial reward, and random sellable crap just isn't a reward. The early game habits that every RPG establishes and encourages becomes pretty silly by the time the late game rolls around, when you're snoozing at everything that was novel before.

Um, I lined up my premises but can't find the conclusion now, probably because I'm drunk. Would someone who sees where I'm going pick up the ball and run with it?

I'm out.
EAKS players often live by the phrase 'The journey is often more enjoyable than the destination.' They are motivated by meeting the challenges of the world, but they are usually in no rush--because seeing the creatures and places of the world is even more fun.

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DemonicAngel
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Post by DemonicAngel » Sat Dec 01, 2007 7:52 pm

Don't uberquests/challenges result with ubercharms/upgrades for your class charm? :P

And they don't have to just result in random sellable crap, they can sometimes drop items you can use. ;)

And, if you were talking about gold sinks, 1.57 is going to have something that will be a gold sink.

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enkephalin07
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Post by enkephalin07 » Mon Dec 03, 2007 2:07 am

Don't get me wrong, I'm not complaining; god knows I perpetuated this myself when I was coding MUD or modding RPG. I was rambling more about the general practice in RPG's, wondering why no one had developed an alternative. I've been playing a little Kingdom of Loathing, which also has this run-kill-scavenge-turn-it-to-cash grind, but since it's parody it makes an open mockery of the convention.

I sure do appreciate the ubercharms, the challenge charms, the challenges themselves, and the uniqueness of the uniques. They're certainly better than Blizzard released.
EAKS players often live by the phrase 'The journey is often more enjoyable than the destination.' They are motivated by meeting the challenges of the world, but they are usually in no rush--because seeing the creatures and places of the world is even more fun.

Breakdown: Achiever 60.00%, Explorer 73.33%, Killer 40.00%, Socializer 26.67%

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DemonicAngel
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Post by DemonicAngel » Mon Dec 03, 2007 3:34 am

Wait, so for are you asking for? :-|

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enkephalin07
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Post by enkephalin07 » Mon Dec 03, 2007 10:35 am

Um, I thought I was asking for someone with a head on their shoulders to bounce the idea back, but your answer has convinced me I'm in the wrong forum for that. Thank you for playing! :P
EAKS players often live by the phrase 'The journey is often more enjoyable than the destination.' They are motivated by meeting the challenges of the world, but they are usually in no rush--because seeing the creatures and places of the world is even more fun.

Breakdown: Achiever 60.00%, Explorer 73.33%, Killer 40.00%, Socializer 26.67%

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PopizzdioJazz
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Post by PopizzdioJazz » Mon Dec 03, 2007 2:25 pm

you asked at one point why doesn't somebody offer an alternative.
answer would be that there isn't one. every game that promises some reward after you do something in game, do a quest, kill a monster, anything, will in the end turn into grinding game.
i think the turning point is when you actually do everything at one time, ie. do the last thing for the first time. after that, you can only kill-loot-repeat (i think there's a guild on some wow server with that name).

as for kol, they're doing their best to introduce new stuff you your KLR sequence prolongs :) i don't know what will be after ms15 patch but i think that's irrelevant as it is, cause you can't expect ppl to play the same game over and over again for more than 3-4 years. if you keep them for that long, then you've made an achievement.

on the other hand, if you want something original instead of usual KLR iteration, start playing table top RPGs with your RL friends :)
and don't hook yourself on D&D or some other 'developed' crap cause you'll sink into grinding in a matter of sessions.
rather, try LOTS of homemade RPGs, especially games that DON'T offer and tangible rewards. i'd suggest you start with 'wuthering hights' or 'mean streets and mean villains' and work your way from there.

happy hangover ;)
i think, there for i don't know for sure...

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Post by nimrod » Mon Dec 03, 2007 3:11 pm

PopizzdioJazz";p="369671" wrote: on the other hand, if you want something original instead of usual KLR iteration, start playing table top RPGs with your RL friends :)
and don't hook yourself on D&D or some other 'developed' crap cause you'll sink into grinding in a matter of sessions.
rather, try LOTS of homemade RPGs, especially games that DON'T offer and tangible rewards. i'd suggest you start with 'wuthering hights' or 'mean streets and mean villains' and work your way from there.

happy hangover ;)
Actually PoppizzdioJazz, there are some D&Drpg's (most noticeably neverwinter) that don't have grinding at all. Once you kill a monster, you can't kill it again, so it's impossible to grind.
There is only one cure for poverty, and that is, the liberation of women. -Christopher Hitchens

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PopizzdioJazz
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Post by PopizzdioJazz » Mon Dec 03, 2007 5:18 pm

i meant on table top... (i know, you can't replay the same thing twice anyways, but that doesn't mean you won't be grinding)

problem with D&D is that it's either 'MOAR XP!!!!!' or 'MOAR MAGIC ITEMS!!!!!'
if not in the beginning, it becomes that very very fast.

try playing those games i mentioned and you'll see how is that not the case there. ;)
if not, try 'f****'... *burns in hell for wanting to mention the game that shall not be named*
Last edited by PopizzdioJazz on Mon Dec 03, 2007 5:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
i think, there for i don't know for sure...

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