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Post by Brother Laz » Sat Aug 20, 2005 5:21 pm

1) The link thing was due to the forum hanging when I tried to edit the post to include that part, then returning a Page Not Found which spin claims to be impossible.

2) Umm, level 17 in the sewers?? Talk about rushing. ;)

Act 2 sewers have level 9 [skeleton mages] to 14 [everything else] monsters, which do 20 to 31 average damage. The beetles' Claw Tornado spell is fairly nasty and usually hits multiple times, though, so count on about 40-45 damage max. Shadowform helps, of course.

[Edit: by the way, I found a 70-77 damage superior crystal sword. Someone out there will be very happy now]
Last edited by Brother Laz on Sat Aug 20, 2005 5:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
19.may.2007 | Adun Tori Laz.
Median XL released!
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y dont u play the game the way its supposta be played? -SlothNathan

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Post by General_Sun » Sat Aug 20, 2005 5:48 pm

So level 17 is no good. I don't seem to be having too much trouble though. I use Pandemonium (the ice thing) at level 5 and the Searing Orb (the exploding fireball) at level 5. Use them in combination and I do fine. The blinks can kill me in 2 hits, but with the new patch it should be better. 3 hits! :D

Should I go back to Act1 and level more or can I stay in Act2?

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Post by Brother Laz » Sat Aug 20, 2005 6:16 pm

You can stay, you'll get some levels automatically, you're the same level as the monsters so you'll level quickly. Provided you don't get owned before you can level up. ;) Pick up a Fighter Mage and you're good to go.

Blinks are level 9 and do 70-100% damage, or 14-20 damage. If these kill you in 2 hits, you have a serious problem. ;)
19.may.2007 | Adun Tori Laz.
Median XL released!
Flesyht sa ruobhgien yht etah.


y dont u play the game the way its supposta be played? -SlothNathan

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Post by Brother Laz » Sat Aug 20, 2005 6:17 pm

You can stay, you'll get some levels automatically, you're the same level as the monsters so you'll level quickly. Provided you don't get owned before you can level up. ;) Pick up a Fighter Mage and you're good to go.

Blinks are level 9 and do 70-100% damage, or 14-20 damage, in scientific notation: nothing. If these kill you in 2 hits, you have a serious problem. ;)
Last edited by Brother Laz on Sat Aug 20, 2005 6:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Median XL released!
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y dont u play the game the way its supposta be played? -SlothNathan

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Post by General_Sun » Sat Aug 20, 2005 6:35 pm

Maybe I meant glooms, or whatever it is that you find in Act2 sewers.

They do a charge attack, and each hit takes away half of my health.

My stats with 1.8 currently is:
sorc

220ish hp
160ish mana
280ish defense

1 point in rejuv, that thing is so over powered, I turn it on, and I can tank andy. :D
1 point in a bunch of skills that I've tested.
4 in searing bolt and pand, +1 from my staff.
2 in art of war. +1 from staff
2 in Avengers

I'm cruising through act 2 right now. :D My merc is tanking. Avengers die really fast, but I just summon more.

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Post by Brother Laz » Sat Aug 20, 2005 7:08 pm

Glooms: level 13, 21-29 attack1 damage, 29-43 attack2 damage +1-5 lightning, 0% damage bonus from charge, 50% attack rating bonus from charge.

220 hp? At most you lose one fourth of your life. At most.

Nice to hear Pandemonium is finally used by someone, though of course it lagging you out in one cast prior to 1.6 didn't help. Searing Orb may actually be overpowered now, but we'll wait and see...

Is Empower now useful?
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Post by General_Sun » Sat Aug 20, 2005 7:18 pm

I don't know about the Gloom thing, I tell you my experience, maybe they were attacking me in a group, but now when I see a few glooms, I run away fast.

I don't use Empower, my strategy has been, stand behind Merc, right click for Pand, wait, everyone dies, rejuv if damaged. I hardly use searing orb at all. Pand is so much better, I switch to Orb if I run out of mana. I have Pand on right click and orb on left, I just spam Pand. I also call on avengers from time to time. I totally forgot to use banish or that uber magic spell on andy. I remember on reflection. All I did was stand right next to her, Orb away, rejuv, orb away.

The mod is awesome right now. Maybe I should start using empower, maybe that'll be better.

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Post by Brother Laz » Sat Aug 20, 2005 7:57 pm

Running away from a group of charging monsters is exactly what they want you to do: all of them will charge you at once and you die.

Either freeze some of them with Shackles [even level 1 Shackles] or run towards them and count on your defense rating to tank it. [uh... walk towards them or your defense is 0. Thanks, Blizzard]
19.may.2007 | Adun Tori Laz.
Median XL released!
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y dont u play the game the way its supposta be played? -SlothNathan

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Re: Median_2·v1.8 bugs and comments thread

Post by Incompetent » Sat Aug 20, 2005 11:57 pm

[quote=Brother Laz";p="239015"]Any idiot can release an unbalanced mod, but it takes a very special idiot to unbalance a mod after 17 patches.[/quote]

Not to worry - I don't care about how mods start, but how they end up, and this mod is still getting better with almost every patch.

[quote=Brother Laz";p="239015"]- 'Cascade': increased target seek range from 8 yards to 16.7 yards, but reduced damage.[/quote]

Good idea, but how exactly did you reduce damage? There's no indication of it on the skills tab, and according to my character screen, Cascade does the same damage as normal attacks.

[quote=Brother Laz";p="239015"]- 'Cleaving Strike': increased range at level 1, increased damage, added skill timer.[/quote]

Doesn't this turn it into another Last Stand?

Also, the game tells me it has a 250 second spell timer. Is that intentional?


Most of the other changes look good to me. Kudos for the Quake reference :D

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Re: Median_2·v1.8 bugs and comments thread

Post by Brother Laz » Sun Aug 21, 2005 8:48 am

[quote=Incompetent";p="239108"]Good idea, but how exactly did you reduce damage? There's no indication of it on the skills tab, and according to my character screen, Cascade does the same damage as normal attacks.[/quote]

· There is no indication of the reduced damage on Phalanx either, which is due to a [strike]stupid oversight on my part[/strike] bug, but thankfully it is a fixable bug.

· You mean the character screen that lists Rolling Thunder as 0-1 damage and increases the listed Blood Storm damage when you equip a fire damage item?

· It does exactly 56.25% damage [72/128ths] of a normal arrow, down from 75% [96/128ths].

[quote=Incompetent";p="239108"]Doesn't this turn it into another Last Stand?[/quote]

Yes, and it will be useless for this patch. And this will encourage people to use the other skills, and allow me to fix it somehow so it's no longer overpowered despite the very low damage it is supposed to do - 20% of normal attack damage per hit, but it seems to be way more than that. Then I can remove the timer again in the next patch.

[quote=Incompetent";p="239108"]Also, the game tells me it has a 250 second spell timer. Is that intentional?[/quote]

In a flailing monkey sort of way. Still, we're making progress: at least it displays that there is a timer. Looking at Phalanx, this is a massive improvement. Divide the listed value by 25 to get the actual timer.

[quote=Incompetent";p="239108"]Most of the other changes look good to me.[/quote]

You'll probably have to use Shadowform more often, with Mind Flay, and I believe the Feral merc is now constantly dispelling your healing potions with Bloodlust, but hey, it's a paradigm shift. ;)

PS: my last Arch-Angel post on this earth. ;)

Patch 1.9 out!
Last edited by Brother Laz on Sun Aug 21, 2005 11:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
19.may.2007 | Adun Tori Laz.
Median XL released!
Flesyht sa ruobhgien yht etah.


y dont u play the game the way its supposta be played? -SlothNathan

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Re: Median_2·v1.8 bugs and comments thread

Post by Incompetent » Sun Aug 21, 2005 11:51 am

[quote=Brother Laz";p="239126"]· It does exactly 56.25% damage [72/128ths] of a normal arrow, down from 75% [96/128ths].[/quote]

Sounds about right.

[quote=Brother Laz";p="239126"]Yes, and it will be useless for this patch. And this will encourage people to use the other skills, and allow me to fix it somehow so it's no longer overpowered despite the very low damage it is supposed to do - 20% of normal attack damage per hit, but it seems to be way more than that. Then I can remove the timer again in the next patch.[/quote]

Giving it a smaller radius is the right way to go, IMO. Because of the way monsters cluster, even something like 3 yards +1/2 per level would be relevant. You could also remove the damage to the target, and have a higher level of splash damage (say 40 or 50%), so that it's a genuine anti-crowd weapon. At the moment CS is quite a strong attack against a lone target, which seems wrong.

[quote=Brother Laz";p="239126"]PS: my last Arch-Angel post on this earth. ;) [/quote]

Ooh! Did you get deified or something?


On the new Brutal Strikes: The radius is 1 yard or so, right? That's certainly not to be sniffed at, as it can easily hit 2 or 3 monsters at once. But 6 hits at half damage adds up to 3x damage, which is more than Time Strike (it can be a bit slower than Time Strike, but then, what do you mean by Time Strike?)

I don't think there's anything wrong with a straightforward attack whose principal purpose is to get your character swinging faster, it's just that Zeal is horribly bugged. Is it possible to put IAS on an attack skill? I'm sure I've seen it done.
Last edited by Incompetent on Sun Aug 21, 2005 12:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Median_2·v1.8 bugs and comments thread

Post by Brother Laz » Sun Aug 21, 2005 12:26 pm

[quote=Incompetent";p="239134"]The problem with CS at the moment is not that one swing kills everything, but that the radius is so large that by the time you've killed 5 monsters by swinging at them, you've felled everything in a huge radius because they've been whacked by every swing you take.[/quote]

I've removed the timer again in 1.9 [download now!] and added a graphic to the area of effect. Yes, it is useful against large crowds, perhaps too useful, but then again there should be some useful combat skills for large crowds, instead of a gazillion different ways to kill single targets.

[quote=Incompetent";p="239134"]Also, the attack does full damage to the target in addition to the splash, which makes it rather powerful even when there are few monsters around.[/quote]

Unfixable, but for single target damage, other skills are a lot better.

[quote=Incompetent";p="239134"]Something like 2 yards +2/3 per level would give a far-from-irrelevant radius, and even if you put the splash damage up a bit, it wouldn't be overpowered, because to get the full impact players would have to take risks by charging into the middle of packs of monsters.[/quote]

The problem is that the skill would be underpowered if it didn't have that enormous radius. Time Strike actually has some area of effect, but a very tiny one, and is considered underpowered. Increase the area just a little and you suddenly catch 5 monsters instead of 1 and it becomes overpowered. There is no real middle ground.

[quote=Incompetent";p="239134"]Maybe if you removed the full damage done to the target itself and just had a flat damage of 40% or so over the radius, that would be about right.[/quote]

Sadly, this is impossible unless I remove the melee part altogether and turn it into a nova clone with a weapon component.

[quote=Incompetent";p="239134"][quote=Brother Laz";p="239126"]PS: my last Arch-Angel post on this earth. ;) [/quote]

Ooh! Did you get deified or something?[/quote]

2000 posts. ;)

[quote=Incompetent";p="239134"]But 6 hits at half damage adds up to 3x damage, which is more than Time Strike (it can be a bit slower than Time Strike, but then, what do you mean by Time Strike?)[/quote]

The difference is that Time Strike does its full damage in one hit after about 2-4 seconds, while this one does 1/2 damage per second and the duration gets longer and longer. You don't do damage any faster when you put more points into it, unless the target stays put for ten seconds which rarely happens.

[quote=Incompetent";p="239134"]I don't think there's anything wrong with a straightforward attack whose principal purpose is to get your character swinging faster, it's just that Zeal is horribly bugged.[/quote]

So, it went. ;)

[quote=Incompetent";p="239134"]Is it possible to put IAS on an attack skill? I'm sure I've seen it done.[/quote]

Yes, I believe it's called Frenzy. ;)
Last edited by Brother Laz on Sun Aug 21, 2005 12:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
19.may.2007 | Adun Tori Laz.
Median XL released!
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y dont u play the game the way its supposta be played? -SlothNathan

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Re: Median_2·v1.8 & v1.9 bugs and comments thread

Post by ldave » Sun Aug 21, 2005 6:35 pm

I started my char in v1.7, now it's lvl 27 and in Act3 Kurast Bazaar.

I'm playing with an assassin, using a two-handed sword and a bow, have points in Time Strike, Summon Avenger, Art of War, Crucify and Guided Chain. (19 skillpoints unspend, to much skills, can't choose:)

life:667
mana:131

A few things:
-Guided Chain is not using arrows from the invertory
-Crucify doesn't show damage on charpage
-the "kiss me" fogs (can't remember the name) are a real pain, I'm afraid of killing them:), if 2 or more die at hte same time, it's impossible to survive
-ranged monsters do much more damage than melee ones, or it just feels like this, but ranged are more dangerous
-sometimes in narrow places the char stucks, can't move forward, just backwards (maggot lair, arcana and over rivers in act3)

And there was someting else too, but can't remeber now...

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Re: Median_2·v1.8 & v1.9 bugs and comments thread

Post by Brother Laz » Sun Aug 21, 2005 8:47 pm

[quote=ldave";p="239178"]-Guided Chain is not using arrows from the invertory[/quote]

Okay.

[quote=ldave";p="239178"]-Crucify doesn't show damage on charpage[/quote]

I'm convinced the character screen just displays random numbers. :x In 1.9, at least the description is correct.

[quote=ldave";p="239178"]-the "kiss me" fogs (can't remember the name) are a real pain, I'm afraid of killing them:), if 2 or more die at hte same time, it's impossible to survive[/quote]

Update to patch 1.9!

Patch 1.7 is the hardest. Don't be stubborn ;) , just patch to 1.9, then you can use Shadowform to resist that damage... [doesn't work in 1.7: Shadowform has a fixed 10 sec duration in 1.7 which is too low, and the listed percentages are off]

[quote=ldave";p="239178"]-ranged monsters do much more damage than melee ones, or it just feels like this, but ranged are more dangerous[/quote]

Update to patch 1.9!

Monster damage and attack rating was reduced, especially attack rating on ranged monsters, and the bug that increased elemental monster damage is fixed.

[quote=ldave";p="239178"]-sometimes in narrow places the char stucks, can't move forward, just backwards (maggot lair, arcana and over rivers in act3)[/quote]

I've heard this so many times already, I'm going to add it to the readme in the next patch. This is a bug from classic LoD. This and doors being in the opposite state as their graphic are two of the most commonly emailed bugs, and I can do nothing about them.

[quote=ldave";p="239178"]And there was someting else too, but can't remeber now...[/quote]

I think this was fixed in 1.9, I can't remember though...... ;) :mrgreen:
Last edited by Brother Laz on Sun Aug 21, 2005 8:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
19.may.2007 | Adun Tori Laz.
Median XL released!
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y dont u play the game the way its supposta be played? -SlothNathan

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Re: Median_2·v1.8 & v1.9 bugs and comments thread

Post by ldave » Sun Aug 21, 2005 11:01 pm

This is a bug from classic LoD
Ok, but somehow I have never ever experiencied this is classic LoD (the door bug ok, but not the narrow path), and it looks like somehow it's very common in your mod. Or maybe I was just lucky til this time:)
just patch to 1.9
I was downloading the new patch while I was posting:) But found a good way for the frogs: summon an avenger from the coprse, then the chain of cold nova stops:)

And the forgotten thing was about the hireling (sometimes disappear), but that's a classic bug too.
Last edited by ldave on Sun Aug 21, 2005 11:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Median_2·v1.8 & v1.9 bugs and comments thread

Post by Joel » Sun Aug 21, 2005 11:30 pm

[quote=ldave";p="239205"]
Ok, but somehow I have never ever experiencied this is classic LoD (the door bug ok, but not the narrow path), and it looks like somehow it's very common in your mod. Or maybe I was just like til this time:)
[/quote]

Trust me, it appears very often in my mod too ;) an I don't think line and laz's mod share anything except some subtle stuff non related to maps.
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Re: Median_2·v1.8 & v1.9 & v1.9 F bugs and comments

Post by Gonbow » Mon Aug 22, 2005 8:23 pm

I'll probably regret reporting this but... Shadowform (at level 1 at least) does not take up any mana when used, despite the description stating that it takes 3.

Cleaving Strike and Brutral Strikes similarly have no mana cost, but their descriptions do not list any cost, so I assume that was intended. Similarly, neither reports damage on the char-page, but I'm sure you already know that.

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Re: Median_2·v1.8 & v1.9 & v1.9 F bugs and comments

Post by Brother Laz » Mon Aug 22, 2005 8:40 pm

[quote=Gonbow";p="239334"]I'll probably regret reporting this but...[/quote]

I'm not gonna bite you, believe me. ;)

[quote=Gonbow";p="239334"]Shadowform (at level 1 at least) does not take up any mana when used, despite the description stating that it takes 3.[/quote]

It actually does take mana, but mana regeneration is rather fast. If you have say 100 mana, you regenerate 6.7 mana per second and the difference would hardly be noticable.

[quote=Gonbow";p="239334"]Cleaving Strike and Brutral Strikes similarly have no mana cost, but their descriptions do not list any cost, so I assume that was intended.[/quote]

Yep, why would one need to use magic to slam an enemy with an axe? ;)

[quote=Gonbow";p="239334"]Similarly, neither reports damage on the char-page, but I'm sure you already know that.[/quote]

Yep, and I don't know why, because the LCS settings are correct in skilldesc.txt.
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Re: Median_2·v1.8 & v1.9 & v1.9 F bugs and comments

Post by Lanthanide » Tue Aug 23, 2005 2:40 am

Right, I've had a chance at playing 1.9 now and it's good.

To start with: the balance is pretty much perfect right now.

One niggle though, the travincal council goat priest on nightmare can kill me in 1 hit and I have over 1200 HP. Not sure if it's because he's low on HP or is just generally way to strong for that area.

Bugs and balance problems:

- The knights never seem to cast curses like they are supposed to. Very infrequently I see a curse AoE show up, but I don't get cursed. It's both far too infrequent, and not working.

- Hit Slows Target on the poison knights is really really tedious and not fun. It lasts for ages and makes you so slow for both running and attacking. I'd say reduce it's duration (if you can) to 5 seconds max, or replace it with a decrepify curse - potentially a decrep curse that doesn't have any overlay so it looks the same as the old 'slows target' but you've got more control over it.

- Empower may be too strong. I cast it when I was taking on NM Diablo, and it only took 1 (at that stage slvl 9) lightning wall to kill him.

It's also too strong in the fact that it gives you 4x spell damage, but the spells don't cost you any extra mana or anything - so my lightning wall that did uber damage didn't cost uber mana to cast.

One idea here would be to reduce it back to +200% damage and throw in +2 slvl as well. That way you get increased damage as well as side-effects (more duration, but more mana cost).

A couple of clvls ago my lightning wall did 1-415 damage at slvl 10 (with +31% spell damage). If you cast empower, that'd be doing 4-1660 damage. At slvl 12 (ie, skill shrine), it did 1-524 damage. If you cast empower it'd be doing 4-2096 damage.

If you reduced empower to +200% damage and +2 slvl, that slvl 10 lightning wall with empower would become slvl 12, dealing 1-524 base damage, with +200% giving 3-1572 damage. This is fairly close to the 4-1660 damage it would give if it were just +300% damage, but in addition to having slightly lower damage it also costs more mana to cast, which I think is a lot fairer since it is doing bucketloads more damage.

- Would it be possible to give Empower a new overlay? Right now it appears at the sorc's feet, but that can often be impossible to see if a monster is in front of you, or if you're casting lots of stationary spells (lightning wall, disco inferno, bloodstorm, slayer etc)

- Now that Disco Inferno deals magic damage, slayer is probably too weak and pointless to use since it used to be the only source of magic damage. IIRC my disco inferno does something like 105-150 damage while my slayer does 110-200, but the DI shoots off bolts far quicker than the slayer does, and its bolts pierce whereas the slayer bolts don't. You can also have more than 5 DI and if you cast them right on top of an enemy they take all the hits, whereas slayer doesn't work that way. DI doesn't aim, but given how many you can cast and how fast they spew out the bolts, this isn't an issure.

- I put some perfect skulls with +8% str into some armor for my merc to wear, except he gains no benefit from +% to str! Would this be a fixable bug, or have I just wasted 3 perfect skulls? Interesting that +% doesn't work for mercs, but straight + does.

- Also, with the change in effects for gems in armor, you might want to boost the corresponding runes up; I have an Um that has +8% energy in all items, including armor, but I could just use a (much more common) gem in armor and get the same effect. Perhaps the rune should give +12-16% in armor, while remaining at +8% in other items? Or you might want to bump that up to +12% in all items regardless, now that Eld has 6% to all, whereas it used to have +4% to all. Or perhaps give +10 stat as well as +% to stat to the rune to make it even more attractive.

- The Shenk quest may be bugged. It took me 3 games in NM before I could be credited with completing this quest.

The first game, I entered the bloody foothills (or whatever) and my Sorc said "my magic will break the siege". I went to kill Shenk, and when I did nothing happened at all.

The next game, I entered the level again and my sorc again said "my magic will break the siege" (should only happen the 1st time you ever enter a level). This time when I went up to shenk the 1st part of the quest showed up, telling me to kill him. When I did kill him, again nothing happened.

The 3rd game, I entered the level and my sorc didn't say anything, but this time when I killed Shenk the quest was successfully completed and Larzuk is now offering to add sockets to an item (not that any non-socketed socketable items drop, ever). Interestingly when I killed him I didn't get the usual meteor etc lightshow that happens. I'm not sure if this still occurs in your mod, because when I killed him on Normal diff he was quite far off the screen (IIRC I still got the lag when it loads up all the graphics/sounds though).

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Re: Median_2·v1.8 & v1.9 & v1.9 F bugs and comments

Post by Brother Laz » Tue Aug 23, 2005 12:00 pm

[quote=Lanthanide";p="239367"]Right, I've had a chance at playing 1.9 now and it's good.[/quote]

By the way, if you're looking to do runewords with your sorc, an undocumented fix in 1.9 F is that the runeword Celestial Pole now works properly.

[quote=Lanthanide";p="239367"]One niggle though, the travincal council goat priest on nightmare can kill me in 1 hit and I have over 1200 HP. Not sure if it's because he's low on HP or is just generally way to strong for that area.[/quote]

It's the low-on-HP part combined with the high monster level of that area. I believe the damage synergy of the spell is based on a straight difference between its current life and max life, not a percentage like Death Coil. This could cause the damage to shoot off the charts if the goat in question is a boss and receives a major hit point bonus.

I'll fix this by changing the spell damage to a percentage of the caster's hit points lost. This should also prevent the skill when used by a character [CtC on a runeword] from killing Diablo in two hits, or similar.

[quote=Lanthanide";p="239367"]- The knights never seem to cast curses like they are supposed to.[/quote]

Strange, because they do have the correct AI and the duration is not 0. If I can't fix it, I'll get them a different AI, they're too CLoD-ish anyway. Enjoy the lack of IM for now. ;)

[quote=Lanthanide";p="239367"]- Hit Slows Target on the poison knights is really really tedious and not fun. It lasts for ages and makes you so slow for both running and attacking.[/quote]

Ugh, I nerfed it in Normal but apparently I forgot NM and Hell. A curse is no option, as it would replace the event curse I'm using to make the 'when struck' skills such as Retaliate and Retribute work. I'll just reduce the percentages - I believe it's 25% in Normal, and I apparently left it at 50% for the other two difficulties.

[quote=Lanthanide";p="239367"]- Empower may be too strong. I cast it when I was taking on NM Diablo, and it only took 1 (at that stage slvl 9) lightning wall to kill him.[/quote]

Well, bosses have low hit points on purpose. It sucks to have to chip away at a boss for 20 minutes, and get killed over and over in the process. That's just tedious.

[quote=Lanthanide";p="239367"]It's also too strong in the fact that it gives you 4x spell damage, but the spells don't cost you any extra mana or anything - so my lightning wall that did uber damage didn't cost uber mana to cast.[/quote]

It lasts for 5 seconds and has a 20 second timer, so on average it increases the damage output of your spells over time by 75%. This is only slightly higher than the spell damage bonus of Bloodlust, 50%, and lower than the damage bonus of Bloodlust pre-1.9 [100%] and the damage bonus from stacking Bloodlust and Mark of the Wild, if you're a druid or use CtC runes. [50%+50%].

Also, burst damage is less useful than sustained damage. You may be able to gib that balrog pack in three seconds with Empowered LC, leaving a mob of fully healthy lightning demons alive, and then Empower runs out. Or kill a frog instantly with Empowered Flash and then have to run away for the remaining four seconds. Or just having to run away in general from an advancing pack of minotaurs or a barrage of lightning bolts.

[quote=Lanthanide";p="239367"]One idea here would be to reduce it back to +200% damage and throw in +2 slvl as well. That way you get increased damage as well as side-effects (more duration, but more mana cost).[/quote]

This would make it way too powerful at low levels, and with ultimate skills. A level 1 spell, boosted to level 3 and then its damage increased to the equivalent of level 9, would be sort of uber. Level 9 Blood Storm anyone?
8-O
At least with the current version, you only get the equivalent of level 4.

[quote=Lanthanide";p="239367"][...] This is fairly close to the 4-1660 damage it would give if it were just +300% damage, but in addition to having slightly lower damage it also costs more mana to cast, which I think is a lot fairer since it is doing bucketloads more damage.[/quote]

Of course, the lightning spells gain the biggest advantage from Empower. Empower is only overpowered if you can kill the entire mob before it runs out. This involves large area effect skills, such as LC and LW. Holy Trap comes close, but too much time is lost off those five seconds to positioning, and Empowered Flash may kill Diablo in one hit but already does more than enough damage against normal critters without Empower. Two-hit kills to one-hit kills aren't a spectacular difference.

Everything else lacks the area of effect to hit the entire crowd in one cast, which is necessary to kill the pack in five seconds before Empower runs out.

Apocalypse is a decent B-skill since 1.8, but it is still a short ranged skill that cannot take the whole pack at once without putting you in danger; Hunting Banshee is unreliable when it comes to hitting an entire group of monsters [it'll usually hit some of them, randomly], etc.

Also, in /players 2-3 or above, Empower becomes almost useless.

Bug: Empower is not affecting non-elemental spells, and of course doesn't work with timered spells either. Though Empowered Disco Inferno would be even more overpowered. :(

Meh. It's been underpowered for ages, and I increase the bonus from x2 to x4 and nerf duration from 10 to 5 seconds and it is suddenly overpowered.

How about I add a -75% mana modifier? This would effectively cause all spells to cost 4x as much mana in addition to their 4x damage. Also a duration nerf from 5 to 4 seconds would be needed, and perhaps it should make an exception for LC, the only spell aside from the timered Skarra Dawn that can hit an entire room. A +100% damage bonus to LC instead of +300% would be a lot better.

[quote=Lanthanide";p="239367"]- Would it be possible to give Empower a new overlay? Right now it appears at the sorc's feet, but that can often be impossible to see if a monster is in front of you, or if you're casting lots of stationary spells (lightning wall, disco inferno, bloodstorm, slayer etc)[/quote]

I'll add a character and light radius colourshift. A bright red character and light radius would be much more noticeable than any overlay. Also, if I moved the current overlay to above the char's head, it would make certain curses harder to see, especially the fairly deadly succubus LR.

[quote=Lanthanide";p="239367"]- Now that Disco Inferno deals magic damage, slayer is probably too weak and pointless to use since it used to be the only source of magic damage.[/quote]

[Edit: the reason it was changed was to prevent the global physical resistance from rendering it completely useless past Normal]

The difference is that Slayer can attack moving enemies, around corners, and doesn't need to be refreshed as often. It is more of a third party trap skill, whereas DI is a direct damage skill with a duration.

Disco Inferno, once it stops stunlocking, becomes only useful if you stack them hard on a frozen or stationary target or drop them in front of a large incoming pack. Otoh, Slayer is useful when you're running from a pack or to spam suppressive fire while you're doing something else, like spam DI or LC.

Against massive advocate packs and the like, I'd rather use Slayer or even Avatar [another underrated B-skill] to deal damage without having to stand there and get shot at; and the energy beam shooting shamans in Act 5 tend to walk right out of a DI and ignore most of the damage.

Btw: Magic Missiles now adds extra missiles per character level. Is it now finally useful? [and is it not too powerful now on Arcane Toads?]

[quote=Lanthanide";p="239367"]- I put some perfect skulls with +8% str into some armor for my merc to wear, except he gains no benefit from +% to str! Would this be a fixable bug, or have I just wasted 3 perfect skulls? Interesting that +% doesn't work for mercs, but straight + does.[/quote]

Hmmm. In CLoD, do items with +hp% work on mercs? If they do, it is a fixable bug, so hang on to that armor. ;) If not, twink it down to a barb or something. :)

[quote=Lanthanide";p="239367"]- Also, with the change in effects for gems in armor, you might want to boost the corresponding runes up[/quote]

No, because it would make one or the other pointless. Also, runes are used in runewords [though I suspect nobody will actually make them, or tell me why they don't make them, beh].

[quote=Lanthanide";p="239367"]- The Shenk quest may be bugged. It took me 3 games in NM before I could be credited with completing this quest.[/quote]

Uh-oh. I replaced Shenk with another critter and it worked on the first try, so I didn't try him again to see if it would perhaps not work the second time. :(
Last edited by Brother Laz on Tue Aug 23, 2005 1:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
19.may.2007 | Adun Tori Laz.
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Re: Median_2·v1.8 & v1.9 & v1.9 F bugs and comments

Post by Lanthanide » Tue Aug 23, 2005 1:18 pm

Brother Laz";p="239427" wrote:By the way, if you're looking to do runewords with your sorc, an undocumented fix in 1.9 F is that the runeword Celestial Pole now works properly.
As I've said before, unless the staff gives me all the advantages of a shield, or most of them (that means at least 3 elemental resistances in the 20+ range), then I won't use it. Celestial Pole doesn't do that, so I won't use it.

Robe of Steel is damn great, though.
Well, bosses have low hit points on purpose. It sucks to have to chip away at a boss for 20 minutes, and get killed over and over in the process. That's just tedious.
Heh, you're telling -me-. I still remember that 20 min Baal battle with the 1-hit kill Spellbombs...
This would make it way too powerful at low levels, and with ultimate skills. A level 1 spell, boosted to level 3 and then its damage increased to the equivalent of level 9, would be sort of uber. Level 9 Blood Storm anyone?
8-O
At least with the current version, you only get the equivalent of level 4.
Well I -have- an slvl 10 bloodstorm by default, without activating Empower...
Of course, the lightning spells gain the biggest advantage from Empower. Empower is only overpowered if you can kill the entire mob before it runs out.
Why do you think I said it was overpowered? I can -easily- kill an entire mob with it (Act 5 NM) before it runs out.
This involves large area effect skills, such as LC and LW. Holy Trap comes close, but too much time is lost off those five seconds to positioning,
You only need to lay 2 or 3 empowered mines, even if they're in the same spot, with a bunch of normal ones to support it, and you'll take down any fire-vulnerable group easily (just use your merc to hold them in the fire).
and Empowered Flash may kill Diablo in one hit but already does more than enough damage against normal critters without Empower. Two-hit kills to one-hit kills aren't a spectacular difference.]/quote]
Hmm, I need to get me Flash it seems :)
Also, in /players 2-3 or above, Empower becomes almost useless.
Eh? Try using players 8 and see how often you need to use empower just to kill anything in Act 1 NM... Answer: a lot. Hardly useless, more like essential. Unless you want to take an hour to clear 1 level.
Meh. It's been underpowered for ages, and I increase the bonus from x2 to x4 and nerf duration from 10 to 5 seconds and it is suddenly overpowered.
Extreme changes can do that.
How about I add a -75% mana modifier?
No! That just ruins it completely. At the very most I'd do -25%, but I'm not a fan of it anyway. If you want to reduce the # of spells you can cast, just lower the duration.
This would effectively cause all spells to cost 4x as much mana in addition to their 4x damage. Also a duration nerf from 5 to 4 seconds would be needed, and perhaps it should make an exception for LC, the only spell aside from the timered Skarra Dawn that can hit an entire room. A +100% damage bonus to LC instead of +300% would be a lot better.
If you LC you mean Lightning Cascade, it's not really that effective when it's empowered. Lightning Wall should be the one that gets the exception.
The difference is that Slayer can attack moving enemies, around corners, and doesn't need to be refreshed as often. It is more of a third party trap skill, whereas DI is a direct damage skill with a duration.
If you're shooting around a corner (at stationary caster types, for example the undead lawyers) then you can do that with DI and never get touched by the enemies attacks at all.
Disco Inferno, once it stops stunlocking, becomes only useful if you stack them hard on a frozen or stationary target or drop them in front of a large incoming pack. Otoh, Slayer is useful when you're running from a pack or to spam suppressive fire while you're doing something else, like spam DI or LC.
Why is slayer useful in this case? It's not like the slayer acts as a target for the enemies, they just run past it. Better to cast a few DI as you run away, because their bolts do almost as much damage as slayers, but they fire heaps more of them and they all pierce. And since you're running away, it doesn't matter if the duration is only 2.8 seconds anyway.
Against massive advocate packs and the like, I'd rather use Slayer or even Avatar [another underrated B-skill] to deal damage without having to stand there and get shot at; and the energy beam shooting shamans in Act 5 tend to walk right out of a DI and ignore most of the damage.
Well if you're standing still then you deserve to get shot at. Also with the shamens in Act 5, that hasn't been my experience. Most of them will stand completely still (vampire types, goat priests, lawyers wander a little) and just become victims to the DI.
Btw: Magic Missiles now adds extra missiles per character level. Is it now finally useful? [and is it not too powerful now on Arcane Toads?]
Don't know, haven't used it. I'll give ago next time I play and tell you how it fares.

As for the arcane toads, I ran into them in Act 4 and they were actually kind of scary this time around. Good. I think in hell diff they might be a bit overpowered though.
Hmmm. In CLoD, do items with +hp% work on mercs? If they do, it is a fixable bug, so hang on to that armor. ;) If not, twink it down to a barb or something. :)
I hope so, 'cause that'll give my barb merc enough str to use a nice 305-340 damage sword I found >:)
Lanthanide";p="239367" wrote:- Also, with the change in effects for gems in armor, you might want to boost the corresponding runes up
No, because it would make one or the other pointless.
Well the runes are already pointless in armor anyway (why use a rare rune in armor when you could use a common gem if it gives you the same benefits). The whole idea was to give you a choice: use a rare rune in an armor and get big benefits, or because you can't find a rare rune just use a common gem (and then curse Laz's name when you find the rune you wanted and it's too late...).
Also, runes are used in runewords [though I suspect nobody will actually make them, or tell me why they don't make them, beh].
I looked at them. The only one that looks worth using, I am using. Robe of Steel. The others all had problems with them. Brimstone looked ok, but Robe of Steel was better. Madcap or whatever didn't have enough abilities to make it worthwhile.

Be nice to see some shield runewords.



Couple more bugs from my latest play:

I am pretty sure the boss Vampiress at the entrance to the Crystalline Passage (Darkbow or something) is using the Hell-difficulty base monster type. In NM her and her boss pack are immune fire, cold and lightning, whereas the other vampiress' in the level are only immune cold. She also has managed to almost 1 hit kill me (had about 60-70% HP) a couple of times in NM, and she killed me repeatedly in Normal diff. She seems to have far too many HP compared to other monsters in the area too (again this was the case in normal as well).

I finally saw some more dirks with the display bug in the gambling window. I got it's dex req for you: 25.



This isn't a bug, but just my fun with gambling:

I blew over 450,000 gold (I'd just been saving it for no real reason) on gambling for rings and amulets, and then spent the next couple of hours specifically doing gold runs (have about +300% gold gear on me). I got quite a few nice rare amulets with +2 barb/amazon/druid/necro/paladin skills, and a couple of magical +2 sorc amulets, but no bloody rare +2 sorc amulets. Grrr. One of the +2 druid ones would have been perfect if it had just been +2 sorc instead.

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Re: Median_2·v1.8 & v1.9 & v1.9 F bugs and comments

Post by Brother Laz » Tue Aug 23, 2005 2:36 pm

Lanthanide";p="239444" wrote:As I've said before, unless the staff gives me all the advantages of a shield, or most of them (that means at least 3 elemental resistances in the 20+ range), then I won't use it. Celestial Pole doesn't do that, so I won't use it.
Ah, so what it needs to do is give resistances. Good, that'll be for the next batch of runewords in 1.10.

Btw, how are rune drop rates? What is the highest rune you found?
Lanthanide";p="239444" wrote:Heh, you're telling -me-. I still remember that 20 min Baal battle with the 1-hit kill Spellbombs...
You'll be happy to hear that Spellbomb in Normal now only has 25% chance to cast each of its six spells, 50% in NM and 75% in Hell, his 500% attack rating is down to 100%/150%/200%, and Spellbomb is now level 1 instead of level 6.
Lanthanide";p="239444" wrote:Well I -have- an slvl 10 bloodstorm by default, without activating Empower...
Uh... how did you do that? +2 from staff, +2 from rings, +2 at most from amulets, where did the other 3 come from?
Lanthanide";p="239444" wrote:Why do you think I said it was overpowered? I can -easily- kill an entire mob with it (Act 5 NM) before it runs out.
Uh-oh. Overpowered indeed. :(
Lanthanide";p="239444" wrote:You only need to lay 2 or 3 empowered mines, even if they're in the same spot, with a bunch of normal ones to support it, and you'll take down any fire-vulnerable group easily (just use your merc to hold them in the fire).
What I usually do is when I know there are enemies on the next screen, I precast a dozen or so, then run over and lead the enemies into the stack. This usually kills them in one hit. With Empower it would only take 4 precast mines instead of 10-12, but the procedure is the same.
Lanthanide";p="239444" wrote:Hmm, I need to get me Flash it seems :)
Yep, I use it on lightning vulnerable melee opponents. Usually kills them before they get more than one hit in. ;) It doesn't have the range advantage of LC, but it's the most powerful spammable spell in the game. It hits multiple times and isn't useful for stunlock, but even if you get hit before it ends, it still continues to do damage. Kills Act 5 NM Balrogs in two casts, for example. Just don't use it on packs of lawyers. ;)
Lanthanide";p="239444" wrote:Eh? Try using players 8 and see how often you need to use empower just to kill anything in Act 1 NM... Answer: a lot. Hardly useless, more like essential. Unless you want to take an hour to clear 1 level.
I meant that it evens out its added damage over time and becomes similar to Bloodlust or MotW.
Lanthanide";p="239444" wrote:Extreme changes can do that.
Ouch! :twisted: I'll nerf it by reducing the damage from +300% to +295% in 1.10.
Lanthanide";p="239444" wrote:
How about I add a -75% mana modifier?
No! That just ruins it completely. At the very most I'd do -25%, but I'm not a fan of it anyway.
Dark Power used to give -90% mana until 1.9, then it was changed to -75% mana, and I didn't hear anyone complain. :twisted: Of course, nobody plays necromancers... Death Coil hits like a Punisher now and Shadows actually survive one hit and still nobody plays them]
Lanthanide";p="239444" wrote:If you LC you mean Lightning Cascade, it's not really that effective when it's empowered. Lightning Wall should be the one that gets the exception.
Hmm, yep LC doesn't really get a lot of damage from its damage component, more from the added bolt length. I figured it would be overpowered due to its large area of effect. Good thing you can't cast Skarra Dawn with Empower. Hmm.

I believe I overbuffed LW and it is now too good even without Empower. The damage you mentioned from one Empowered LW is the same as the damage from four LWs placed next to each other, against moving monsters [you can't stack LWs, thankfully].
Lanthanide";p="239444" wrote:If you're shooting around a corner (at stationary caster types, for example the undead lawyers) then you can do that with DI and never get touched by the enemies attacks at all.
I believe DI and BS, both missile-based instead of trap-based, wake up the monster and attract it towards the player like holy fire in CLoD - which is why a fire golem is such a good monster magnet.
Lanthanide";p="239444" wrote:
[...] Slayer is useful when you're running from a pack or to spam suppressive fire while you're doing something else, like spam DI or LC.
Why is slayer useful in this case? It's not like the slayer acts as a target for the enemies, they just run past it. Better to cast a few DI as you run away, because their bolts do almost as much damage as slayers, but they fire heaps more of them and they all pierce.
Because it only takes five casts to make a field of Slayers, and they last a fairly long time [10 shots each - 10 seconds, usually]. While the Slayers are attacking, you can do something else, like freeze the enemies or cast DI. Never said I use Slayer exclusively.

So, in your opinion, is DI too powerful or Slayer too weak, considering you have +9 skills somehow?

DI didn't actually have its damage boosted, but I changed it to magic to prevent it being affected by the global physical resist and now it is suddenly overpowered? Plenty of monsters have magic immunity compared to physical immunity, and you aren't suddenly going to DI soul burners, I suppose? ;)
Lanthanide";p="239444" wrote:Well if you're standing still then you deserve to get shot at. Also with the shamens in Act 5, that hasn't been my experience. Most of them will stand completely still (vampire types, goat priests, lawyers wander a little) and just become victims to the DI.
Not the 'shaman'-type monsters like goat and cat priests, but actual shamans, the ones that used to cast firewalls pre-1.8 and now cast Energy Beam.
Lanthanide";p="239444" wrote:Don't know, haven't used it. I'll give ago next time I play and tell you how it fares.

As for the arcane toads, I ran into them in Act 4 and they were actually kind of scary this time around. Good. I think in hell diff they might be a bit overpowered though.
Off the top of my head:

Normal: mlvl 20 in Act 2, 5 bolts, 1-3 base damage, +400% mlvl synergy, 5-15 damage per bolt, 25-75 damage if all bolts hit. Fairly survivable, about the same damage as a beetle's Claw Tornado, and the bolts can be dodged.

NM: mlvl 55 in Act 2, 8 bolts, 1-3 base damage, +1100% mlvl synergy, 12-36 damage per bolt, 96-288 damage if all bolts hit. Standard fare, you'll usually get the average damage of around 192 damage.

Hell: mlvl 80 in Act 2, 11 bolts, 1-3 base damage, +1600% mlvl synergy, 17-51 damage per bolt, 187-561 damage if all bolts hit, average damage about 374 damage, or the damage of an overpowered 1.8 minotaur in Act 4 NM.

Lanthanide";p="239444" wrote:I hope so, 'cause that'll give my barb merc enough str to use a nice 305-340 damage sword I found >:)


:) I'll definitely look into it for the next patch, because this is one bug that could cause a lot of wasted skulls in the player base.

Lanthanide";p="239444" wrote:The whole idea was to give you a choice: use a rare rune in an armor and get big benefits, or because you can't find a rare rune just use a common gem (and then curse Laz's name when you find the rune you wanted and it's too late...).


Then nobody would ever use gems and wait endlessly for runes.

Lanthanide";p="239444" wrote:I looked at them. The only one that looks worth using, I am using. Robe of Steel. The others all had problems with them. Brimstone looked ok, but Robe of Steel was better. Madcap or whatever didn't have enough abilities to make it worthwhile.


And what was wrong with the other ones? I'll make the more useful once I know what the problem is. Also not all of them are Hell-viable, I believe Madcap can be assembled around Act 4 Normal.

Lanthanide";p="239444" wrote:I am pretty sure the boss Vampiress at the entrance to the Crystalline Passage (Darkbow or something) is using the Hell-difficulty base monster type.


Nope, one of those select bosses with special stats. Off the top of my head:

· Snotspill: Act 1 cold plains, fallen with new AI, stun and conc aura.
· Blightfire: Act 1 cathedral, goat priest with a bloodstar attack.
· Fatal Morgana: Act 2 lost city, wraith with a more aggressive AI.
· Kermit: Act 2 false tombs, frog with a more aggressive AI.
· Bloodskin Darkbow: Act 5 tundra, rogue with Combat Shot and Phantom Shot.
· Destructus: Act 5 Baal, uses the same monster type as Bloodskin.
Lanthanide";p="239444" wrote:She also has managed to almost 1 hit kill me (had about 60-70% HP) a couple of times in NM, and she killed me repeatedly in Normal diff.


She is fairly overleveled for the area, and before patch 1.9 she had Death Coil which could easily kill a character in one hit if she had taken any damage at all. This was removed for obvious reasons in 1.9.

Lanthanide";p="239444" wrote:She seems to have far too many HP compared to other monsters in the area too (again this was the case in normal as well).


All of these 'special' bosses have 400%-600% hit points. Of course, Snotspill is still a fallen and only dangerous in Normal, Kermit is hidden away in a false tomb where nobody sees him, and most people roll over Blightfire and Fatal Morgana without even noticing them, so I guess this is the first 'tough' special boss hmm? ;)

/me contemplates bringing back Woescream from DT2...

Lanthanide";p="239444" wrote:I finally saw some more dirks with the display bug in the gambling window. I got it's dex req for you: 25.


That'll be enough to track down which one is giving the problem, even though I still have no idea why it bugs. Worst comes to worst, I'll just disable it. Turning off one never used dirk out of six dirks and 24 daggers which nobody uses won't hurt anyone.

Lanthanide";p="239444" wrote:I blew over 450,000 gold (I'd just been saving it for no real reason) on gambling for rings and amulets, and then spent the next couple of hours specifically doing gold runs (have about +300% gold gear on me).


I take it the 1.8 vendor price rebalancing worked? ;)

Lanthanide";p="239444" wrote:I got quite a few nice rare amulets with +2 barb/amazon/druid/necro/paladin skills, and a couple of magical +2 sorc amulets, but no bloody rare +2 sorc amulets. Grrr.


Hee, hee. Gambling with my level 99 character editor test necro seems to result in a shower of +2 skills rings, especially amazon, sorceress, barbarian, druid, paladin and assassin ones.

Lanthanide";p="239444" wrote:One of the +2 druid ones would have been perfect if it had just been +2 sorc instead.


Caster druid anyone? :)
Last edited by Brother Laz on Tue Aug 23, 2005 2:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
19.may.2007 | Adun Tori Laz.
Median XL released!
Flesyht sa ruobhgien yht etah.


y dont u play the game the way its supposta be played? -SlothNathan

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Re: Median_2·v1.8 & v1.9 & v1.9 F bugs and comments

Post by Gonbow » Tue Aug 23, 2005 5:18 pm

Act 1 woes... This may just be my computer, but has anyone else had issues moving from act 1 to act 2 for the first time with a character with the new patch? (D2 crashes with a unhandled something or other; if anyone else has had this issue, I'll cause it again and write down the issue exactly)

Also, the act 1 mercenary (archer-type, I believe) tends to randomly stop moving if it gets more than a screen away from my character, then won't do anything at all until my character teleports (scroll of town portal, or waypoint), even if I move closer to it. Monsters seem to ignore the stuck merc as well.

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Re: Median_2·v1.8 & v1.9 & v1.9 F bugs and comments

Post by Lanthanide » Tue Aug 23, 2005 11:12 pm

Ah, so what it needs to do is give resistances. Good, that'll be for the next batch of runewords in 1.10.

Btw, how are rune drop rates? What is the highest rune you found?
Rune drop rates are weird. Are you still using the table-style of the rune drops from when they were first introduced? Like 2/9 it will drop rune 1, 1/9 it will drop rune 2, 6/9 it will go to the next level down?

Because what it seems like now is that I don't find many of the low level 1-5 runes, only more of the higher ones -> the drop down percent doesn't seem to be that high. I've hardly found any Nefs for example (although lots of Elds, which is good 'cause they're good runes).

As for the highest rune I've found: I've gotten a Dol, Hel and a Fal from regular monsters, I think they're probably the highest. Otherwise I've gotten an Um and an Io from forge/countess.

I think rune drop rates could be tweaked up just a little, and given a more flat dropping rate (so El's are only slightly more common than Sols, for example, so you get a more even spread of the lower level runes dropping).
Lanthanide";p="239444" wrote:Well I -have- an slvl 10 bloodstorm by default, without activating Empower...
Uh... how did you do that? +2 from staff, +2 from rings, +2 at most from amulets, where did the other 3 come from?
Oops, not thinking straight. :oops:

I've got two +1 rings and +1 armor giving me +3 = slvl 8 for most spells and only slvl 4 for the ultimates. My robe of steel does have an addtional +31% spell damage on it though. I think my recollection of slvl 10 is from thinking about Lightning Wall and it combining with some skill shrines.
What I usually do is when I know there are enemies on the next screen, I precast a dozen or so, then run over and lead the enemies into the stack. This usually kills them in one hit. With Empower it would only take 4 precast mines instead of 10-12, but the procedure is the same.
I don't even do that, I just get the enemies to follow me and cast them as I go. Works on everything but the really fast ones. Guess it helps having +38% faster run/walk though.
Lanthanide";p="239444" wrote:
How about I add a -75% mana modifier?
No! That just ruins it completely. At the very most I'd do -25%, but I'm not a fan of it anyway.
Dark Power used to give -90% mana until 1.9, then it was changed to -75% mana, and I didn't hear anyone complain. :twisted: Of course, nobody plays necromancers... Death Coil hits like a Punisher now and Shadows actually survive one hit and still nobody plays them]
Yeah, well -if- you made that change, I'd probably never bother using it except against act bosses. So if you want to make it useless again...
I believe I overbuffed LW and it is now too good even without Empower. The damage you mentioned from one Empowered LW is the same as the damage from four LWs placed next to each other, against moving monsters [you can't stack LWs, thankfully].
Yeah, I think you might've. The mana cost is good for it's current damage though, so if you reduce the damage I think you should reduce the mana a little too.

Do those charged bolts that spit out do any damage? Be nice if they did.
I believe DI and BS, both missile-based instead of trap-based, wake up the monster and attract it towards the player like holy fire in CLoD - which is why a fire golem is such a good monster magnet.
Yeah, but there are certain monster types that don't advance on you, such as lawyers, goat priests, vampires etc
Because it only takes five casts to make a field of Slayers, and they last a fairly long time [10 shots each - 10 seconds, usually].
In the time that your 5 slayers have done 10 shots each -> 50 shots all together, I could have cast about 20 disco infernos, each of which would shoot about 30-40 bolts total, only 5 may hit from each one, but that's 5 x 20 = 100 hits, all doing roughly the same damage as slayer, but these bolts pierce as well, so they could potentially hit more monsters.
DI didn't actually have its damage boosted, but I changed it to magic to prevent it being affected by the global physical resist and now it is suddenly overpowered? Plenty of monsters have magic immunity compared to physical immunity, and you aren't suddenly going to DI soul burners, I suppose? ;)
The crux is that you changed it from physical to magical. The whole point of slayer is that it was the only spell that did magic damage. There are already several trap-type spells (eg DI and BS), the only thing that made Slayer essentially different was that it did Magic damage. I never used it as a primary spell, only in situations where is was required due to lightning/fire/phsyical immune monsters. But now that DI does magic damage, there's no reason to use slayer, ever, because DI is simply more efficient. Slayer may last a long time, but that doesn't help you kill things any quicker, whereas DI really pumps out the damage quick.

What you can do to remedy the situation I don't know. Possibly change slayer to use some kind of AoE spell? What if the bolts did say 10% of the enemies HP in damage? Obviously you'd have to adjust the number of slayers you could have and the # of bolts they shot etc, in this case.
The whole idea was to give you a choice: use a rare rune in an armor and get big benefits, or because you can't find a rare rune just use a common gem (and then curse Laz's name when you find the rune you wanted and it's too late...).
Then nobody would ever use gems and wait endlessly for runes.
Well currently no one uses the runes. So pick what case you'd rather happen? :)

If you changed the Gems (or runes) to be +stat instead of +%stat that'd be a way around it. Particularly if you can't fix the problem with mercs not working with +%str or +%dex properly.

If it were the gems that worked like this, it'd open up an avenue of just making a junky stat-booster item you could use until you leveled up enough to put points in to str to use some other nice item you'd found, for example.
And what was wrong with the other ones? I'll make the more useful once I know what the problem is. Also not all of them are Hell-viable, I believe Madcap can be assembled around Act 4 Normal.
You're treading a fine line between making the runewords useful and making them mandatory for use. I already consider Robe of Steel a bit overpowered (but at the same time it's neccesary, I think, the extra +1 skills has helped me a lot).

Golden Youth:
Could use some higher defense on it as the other two armor runewords have the same amount, so there's no real draw to use this one. Say +40-80% def, perhaps with +100 def as well. Maybe increase the gold find % a bit, to like 130% or so, or perhaps put a small +% chance to find magic items in as well. Right now its fairly easy to find items that have more % gold than this (I have gloves with +110% and an amulet with +190%).

Brimstone:
Increase the fire damage added, 12-14 is pointless as it doesn't really help you. More like 20-40 or so would be interesting. Throw in +10% maximum fire resist and make it +85% to make this armor something different that you can't usually get, or possibly throw in some fire absorb. What spell is Immolation anyway?

Robe of Steel:
Great. This one is actually really well designed, possibly a little overpowered, but there's not much I think you'd really want to take out. it has FCR which is hard to find, +1 skills which really helps out the casters, the magic damage is an unusual modifier you can't get elsewhere, but the whole designed is hampered by the lowish defense rating (which is good). The curse length reduction is very useful against soul burners. Another good point is that there are no resistances on this armor, so you have to sacrifice that in order to get the benefits.

Madcap:
10-15% bonus to attributes isn't much, considering you can get (rare) helms with 3 or 4 sockets that you can stick Elds in to which each give you 6%. +2 to a random skill you may never use - not very useful. This would be more useful if it was specifically +2 to an ultimate skill, although perhaps overpowered. And you might get +2 in an ultimate you never use (I don't use any of the attacking/defense ones). 50% chance to cast DI on striking - snorefest, this isn't different, or even terribly useful. Casting frog prince is interesting, but you have to -die- to even see it, so it's not really a useful bonus because there is a large negative effect to even see it.

Main problem with Madcap is that is has so few modifiers and they're so useless. What if you threw in a small % life/mana steal or some more interesting % chance to cast modifiers, particularly using monster spells?

Blitzen:
Looks ok, but I don't use weapons so don't really know how feasible it is. It doesn't have any sort of %enhanced damage or +min/max, so I wouldn't be surprised if no one actually uses it.

Vorpal Dog:
Looks ok. Might want to bump the low end of the enhanced damage up to 30-35% to help prevent people wasting runes on crappy items they can't use.

Craveheart:
In order for anyone to use this weapon, the proc skills on it must be a better tradeoff than other items they have found so far. I don't believe they are - I got a rare broadsword that did 140-150 damage in Act 5 N, I don't think the proc skills on this could make up for the damage difference that I'd get on that other sword. The other weapons had +% cold/lightning damage going for them, but this one only has procs.

Woescream:
This is really only useful as a caster weapon because of the chacne to flee. The procs are interesting but don't look particularly useful. -25% poison resistance is ignorable because there's only 1 spell that does poison damage anyway - which you have on a proc, but not with a particularly high chance. Might want to throw in an additional 10% chance to cast it. The main attraction here is the punisher though.

In general this looks like it could be an interesting niche weapon, but you'd need to hear from someone who players a melee char about whether they might use it or not.

Groundswell:
The one uses some highish runes but doesn't really deliver on the damage front. Possibly give it a small % of crushing blow or deadly strike to spice things up a bit.


General comment on wands/staves/scepters:
Remember that +1-2 [class] spells is an automod on the respective item. This means someone could get +2 to spells on a staff and make Celestial Pole and get themselves a tastey +5 to sorc spells.


Devil's cry:
I'd use it if I was a necro. Probably want to drop +spells down to 1 though.

Shadowsinger:
Too much variation on the individual spell buffs. Should be +2-3 (remember automod).

Flower Sprinkler:
Why'd you pink such a gay name? :P
This looks overpowered, they'll constantly be healing. Sure, they can't use other spells that cancel with the healing, but they probably don't even need to. I'd just drop the rej thing completely, or make it like 15% chance of casting slvl 5 (so when it goes off, they are quickly healed, but it doesn't make them invulnerable).
What is Death of a God?

Light's Widow:
Looks ok, but need to ask a paladin.

Lorelay:
Really really wimpy. The only things it has going for it are +1-2 (possible +3-4) sorc spells as well as 10% FCR. 10% FCR by itself won't even get you to the first frame reduction (I don't think, see dii.net strat section for articles). This should be more like 30-40% if you want to make this staff interesting. IMO Hunting Banshee is a rubbish spell so that mod is ignorable. Attacker flees is handy, but could also be very frustrating.
Even if you just left this staff as is, except made FCR something like 50-60%, that'd be enough to make this staff worth considering. But as it is now it needs and overhaul. And as noted, there aren't any resistances to be seen or any shield mods (defense, replen life etc).

Celestial Pole:
Potential for +5 sorc spells here, as noted at the top. 20-40% bonus to all stats is nice, but you can get a crystal sword or 1-handed axe with 6 sockets and stick Elds in it, giving you +36% to stats. No shield mods again, so not much point using it.
Lanthanide";p="239444" wrote:She seems to have far too many HP compared to other monsters in the area too (again this was the case in normal as well).
All of these 'special' bosses have 400%-600% hit points. Of course, Snotspill is still a fallen and only dangerous in Normal, Kermit is hidden away in a false tomb where nobody sees him, and most people roll over Blightfire and Fatal Morgana without even noticing them, so I guess this is the first 'tough' special boss hmm? ;)

/me contemplates bringing back Woescream from DT2...
No wonder it took me forever to kill snotspill in Players 8 NM, or Fata Morgana in Normal diff.

I reckon that's way too high on the HP.
Lanthanide";p="239444" wrote:I finally saw some more dirks with the display bug in the gambling window. I got it's dex req for you: 25.
That'll be enough to track down which one is giving the problem, even though I still have no idea why it bugs. Worst comes to worst, I'll just disable it. Turning off one never used dirk out of six dirks and 24 daggers which nobody uses won't hurt anyone.
If no one uses them, why not remove them from the game altogether and leave us with better drops, rather than with useless daggers and blades we just have to sell, or curse at because they have amazing mods but crappy base item.
I take it the 1.8 vendor price rebalancing worked? ;)
What'd you do anyway? All I noticed is that gems and such now sell for non-1 amounts. And also that repairing is basically free now, but I suspect that may be a bug (more later).

So no, I don't think this has anything to do with the 1.8 vendor balancing, simply because I was doing boss runs for several hours while loaded up with +% gold find gear.
Caster druid anyone? :)

Well I've been considering it. Because I've found quite a few nice melee weapons with +2 druid spells on them, and I know I'm -never- going to find any single-hand items with sorc spells on them, so why do I even bother playing the sorc when other caster types have an inherant and massive advantage over the sorcs.

Unless you make some nice runeword staves, but that just makes sorcs dependant on runewords which is something you generally didn't want in your mod anyway.

I still haven't found any rare staves I'd even consider using btw, they're all junk. IMO you need to make a special set of affixes that only spawn on staves that completely rebalances them, ie remove all of the current weapon mods that spawn that no one wants, and add in more interesting weapon mods and shield mods in combination. A lot of work though.



Couple of bugs I forgot:

Repairing items now seems to be almost free. It says that it'll cost like 1500 gold, but it only costs 2 or 3. I believe the cost is related to how many items need repairing; if 3 items are broken, it'll say heaps of gold, but only cost 3. If 4 items are broken, it'll say even more, but only cost 4. Dunno how this works with charged items, but they might be free to re-charge too.

The sell cap in nightmare could be bumped up, to like 1000 or something. My merc costs 35,000 to revive, which is a lot, and you only get 500 for items you sell. What's worse is that most base items sell for 500 gold, ie, plain white (well, grey) items with no mods easily sell for 500 gold. So it's not as if it's hard to collect the gold or anything, it's just bloody tedious making 50 trips to town and back getting 500 gold at a time per item.

In my gambling spree I got an amulet with 100% chance to cast slvl 21 Plague Avatar when you kill an enemy

I'm assuming that's supposed to be 'when you die'. I tried it out, luckily for you it only works in melee kills, and since it was an amulet I couldn't give it to my merc. Was doing it on Players 8 and it didn't seem to do much (although I was fighting Snotspills band, on P8, so maybe that's why).

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Re: Median_2·v1.8 & v1.9 & v1.9 F bugs and comments

Post by Brother Laz » Wed Aug 24, 2005 11:16 am

Patch 1.10 coming around Sunday [tough exam Saturday] - with any luck, earlier than that.
Lanthanide";p="239524" wrote:Rune drop rates are weird. Are you still using the table-style of the rune drops from when they were first introduced? Like 2/9 it will drop rune 1, 1/9 it will drop rune 2, 6/9 it will go to the next level down?
I am using the table-style, but adjusted for an increased chance to find higher runes. Getting more higher runes than lower ones was not entirely intended either, but I suspect the random number generator.
Lanthanide";p="239524" wrote:As for the highest rune I've found: I've gotten a Dol, Hel and a Fal from regular monsters, I think they're probably the highest. Otherwise I've gotten an Um and an Io from forge/countess.
Good! New runewords coming in next patch. ;)
Lanthanide";p="239524" wrote:I think rune drop rates could be tweaked up just a little, and given a more flat dropping rate (so El's are only slightly more common than Sols, for example, so you get a more even spread of the lower level runes dropping).
The RNG in D2 frequently favours one of the slots in tcex.txt over the others. I got burned on this with the book system in early M_1, where I had level 12 firebolt before my first static spike book dropped despite both having the same rarity.
Lanthanide";p="239524" wrote:Oops, not thinking straight. :oops:
Phew! :) Still, all those +skills are getting out of control. Luckily there is the first breakpoint at skill level 8, so I can decrease the returns after skill level 8. And to think of the fact that originally +2 skills was supposed to be precious.
Lanthanide";p="239524" wrote:I don't even do that, I just get the enemies to follow me and cast them as I go. Works on everything but the really fast ones. Guess it helps having +38% faster run/walk though.
Damage nerf needed?
Lanthanide";p="239524" wrote:Yeah, well -if- you made that change, I'd probably never bother using it except against act bosses. So if you want to make it useless again...
I'll just reduce the percentage on it. ;) That, or give it like a 60 second timer so it is a one-in-a-lifetime instant annihilation in a particularly dangerous situation [stair trap, Snotspill, Kermit, Destructus]. Don't worry. ;)
Lanthanide";p="239524" wrote:
I believe I overbuffed LW [...].
Yeah, I think you might've. The mana cost is good for it's current damage though, so if you reduce the damage I think you should reduce the mana a little too.
Okay. ;)
Lanthanide";p="239524" wrote:Do those charged bolts that spit out do any damage? Be nice if they did.
Easy, just give them a client-side function, but this would probably quickly get out of hand, as the critter that runs into the lightning wall would eat 10 bolts instantly.
Lanthanide";p="239524" wrote:In the time that your 5 slayers have done 10 shots each -> 50 shots all together, I could have cast about 20 disco infernos, each of which would shoot about 30-40 bolts total, only 5 may hit from each one, but that's 5 x 20 = 100 hits, all doing roughly the same damage as slayer, but these bolts pierce as well, so they could potentially hit more monsters.
Okay, I get it. Back to physical damage we go. ;)
Lanthanide";p="239524" wrote:The crux is that you changed it from physical to magical. The whole point of slayer is that it was the only spell that did magic damage.
Back to physical for sure. ;) I don't want to make Slayer overpowered, but would a small splash of about 2-3 yards be enough? I don't want to increase the maximum # you can summon, or else people will drop 100 of them and lead a mob into them and kill it instantly.
Lanthanide";p="239524" wrote:Well currently no one uses the runes. So pick what case you'd rather happen? :)
People using runes in runewords, perhaps? ;)
Lanthanide";p="239524" wrote:If you changed the Gems (or runes) to be +stat instead of +%stat that'd be a way around it. Particularly if you can't fix the problem with mercs not working with +%str or +%dex properly.

If it were the gems that worked like this, it'd open up an avenue of just making a junky stat-booster item you could use until you leveled up enough to put points in to str to use some other nice item you'd found, for example.
I'll consider it. ;)
Lanthanide";p="239524" wrote:You're treading a fine line between making the runewords useful and making them mandatory for use.
Eek. Yes, but if they're never used...
Lanthanide";p="239524" wrote:Golden Youth:
Could use some higher defense on it as the other two armor runewords have the same amount, so there's no real draw to use this one.
The idea was that it has some very low runes and can be assembled early, but apparently it doesn't give enough in return...
Lanthanide";p="239524" wrote:Brimstone:
[...] What spell is Immolation anyway?
It is the attack used by balrogs, the fire patch on striking. I'll consider adding some max fire resist, but I generally dislike this modifier because it could make a char quite nearly immune to an element. +5% enough?
Lanthanide";p="239524" wrote:Robe of Steel:
[...]
The question is: would you ever switch, or just look for a 2K defense tier-6 ancient armor to socket it into? ;)
Lanthanide";p="239524" wrote:Madcap:
[...]
What if I remove the DI, and add a % chance to cast Frog Prince when you kill an enemy?
Lanthanide";p="239524" wrote:Blitzen:
Looks ok, but I don't use weapons so don't really know how feasible it is. It doesn't have any sort of %enhanced damage or +min/max, so I wouldn't be surprised if no one actually uses it.
Hmm, more CtC LC?
Lanthanide";p="239524" wrote:Vorpal Dog:
Looks ok. Might want to bump the low end of the enhanced damage up to 30-35% to help prevent people wasting runes on crappy items they can't use.
Okay, good suggestion. ;)
Lanthanide";p="239524" wrote:Craveheart:
[...] The other weapons had +% cold/lightning damage going for them, but this one only has procs.
You don't like procs, do you? ;)
Lanthanide";p="239524" wrote:Woescream:
This is really only useful as a caster weapon because of the chacne to flee. The procs are interesting but don't look particularly useful. [...] The main attraction here is the punisher though.

In general this looks like it could be an interesting niche weapon, but you'd need to hear from someone who players a melee char about whether they might use it or not.
So I'll leave it for now. :mrgreen:
Lanthanide";p="239524" wrote:Groundswell:
The one uses some highish runes but doesn't really deliver on the damage front. Possibly give it a small % of crushing blow or deadly strike to spice things up a bit.
It does have stun attack, which is very powerful with things like Cleaving Strike.
Lanthanide";p="239524" wrote:General comment on wands/staves/scepters:
Remember that +1-2 [class] spells is an automod on the respective item. This means someone could get +2 to spells on a staff and make Celestial Pole and get themselves a tastey +5 to sorc spells.
Yep, but +1-3 sorc spells can already spawn on magic and rare staves anyway. If you want to <quote> give up the defenses and resistances of a shield </quote>, you otta get something in return. ;)
Lanthanide";p="239524" wrote:Devil's cry:
I'd use it if I was a necro. Probably want to drop +spells down to 1 though.
Hmm, okay, but won't that cause people to ignore it entirely? :-|
Lanthanide";p="239524" wrote:Shadowsinger:
Too much variation on the individual spell buffs. Should be +2-3 (remember automod).
Hmph, there I thought randomness was good... ;)
Lanthanide";p="239524" wrote:Flower Sprinkler:
Why'd you pink such a gay name? :P
Actually, those names are from M_1 times, so 3 years ago. ;) When I make another mod, I'll use more decent names. You're entirely right, Flower Sprinkler is more suited to a unique than a runeword. ;)
Lanthanide";p="239524" wrote:This looks overpowered, they'll constantly be healing. Sure, they can't use other spells that cancel with the healing, but they probably don't even need to.
Not as if you can't keep Rejuv or even potions running constantly without this item... and once your own Rejuv level gets higher than this one, it'd constantly overwrite it.
Lanthanide";p="239524" wrote:What is Death of a God?
The death effect of que-hegan type cantors, the rivers of yellow fire.
Lanthanide";p="239524" wrote:Lorelay:
[...] 10% FCR by itself won't even get you to the first frame reduction (I don't think, see dii.net strat section for articles).
I've made my own Excel calculator, and I believe the first breakpoint is at 8%. Think CD2, Fast Cast on Magefist... lowest grade, either 8% or 10% and it helped.
Lanthanide";p="239524" wrote:IMO Hunting Banshee is a rubbish spell so that mod is ignorable.
It was actually added just to stay in the Loreley theme. The fact that HB is useless isn't the fault of the runeword, and knowing my sense of balance, within a patch or two HB will annihilate everything and LC will totally suck. ;)

How are monster HBs? If they're permanently underpowered, then I can bump up the damage on HB a tad, but I don't have the dozens of test chars I'd need to test it everywhere a HB skill or proc is used.

By the way, I reduced its travel distance a patch or two ago, so it hits sooner and is more accurate, but on the flipside you can't really outrun it either anymore.
Lanthanide";p="239524" wrote:Even if you just left this staff as is, except made FCR something like 50-60%, that'd be enough to make this staff worth considering. But as it is now it needs and overhaul.
I'd rather focus more on the flee aspect of it than add ridiculous amounts of FCR. Sorry. ;)
Lanthanide";p="239524" wrote:Celestial Pole:
Potential for +5 sorc spells here, as noted at the top. 20-40% bonus to all stats is nice, but you can get a crystal sword or 1-handed axe with 6 sockets and stick Elds in it, giving you +36% to stats. No shield mods again, so not much point using it.
Whoever said items have the same number of sockets as in CLoD? You can't get 6 sockets until Hell difficulty.
Lanthanide";p="239524" wrote:I reckon that's way too high on the HP.
Hmm, they're special bosses and you probably didn't even notice that there was something special with Fatal Morgana until I told you. ;) If I decrease their HP, I'll have to add a nice conviction aura or similar to go with it. ;)
Lanthanide";p="239524" wrote:If no one uses them, why not remove them from the game altogether and leave us with better drops, rather than with useless daggers and blades we just have to sell, or curse at because they have amazing mods but crappy base item.
Wait for the next batch of runewords. ;) Will add 15 more in the next patch, including dagger and *gasp* throwing weapon runewords.
Lanthanide";p="239524" wrote:What'd you do anyway? All I noticed is that gems and such now sell for non-1 amounts. And also that repairing is basically free now, but I suspect that may be a bug (more later).
I just increased all sell prices and decreased all buy prices... ;)
Lanthanide";p="239524" wrote:Well I've been considering it. Because I've found quite a few nice melee weapons with +2 druid spells on them, and I know I'm -never- going to find any single-hand items with sorc spells on them, so why do I even bother playing the sorc when other caster types have an inherant and massive advantage over the sorcs.
That was bitter. ;)

No, I'm not going to add orbs. Zons use bows [and spears in CLoD], sorcs use staves. Such is life.

I chould perhaps make staves more useful, I believe they can't get any decent resistances atm, I chould make resistances an automod like +hp on orbs in CLoD. Or how about +% total defense? One could parry with a staff, which would cause more hits to miss you, etc.
Lanthanide";p="239524" wrote:Unless you make some nice runeword staves, but that just makes sorcs dependant on runewords which is something you generally didn't want in your mod anyway.
I hope this doesn't mean I should implement only useless runeword staves. ;)
Lanthanide";p="239524" wrote:I still haven't found any rare staves I'd even consider using btw, they're all junk.
There aren't too many useful modifiers one would actually want to see on staves. There is +skills, FCR, +mana, +resistances and that's about it. This is not nearly enough for a full set of affixes, so I had to add some 'useless' affixes to extend the affix pool.

Also remember that assassins are Very Fast with staves as a weapon. Perhaps nobody ever plays an assassin due to their lack of overpowered innate skills, but at least they do have a class weapon.

How about an automod of +5-50% total defense on low level staves, +10-75% on mid level staves and +15-100% on high level staves? I don't want to pile on the +skills or people would kill everything in one hit with a staff, which isn't the point either, and resistance modifiers aren't useful when you have level 12 Shadowform.
Lanthanide";p="239524" wrote:Repairing items now seems to be almost free. It says that it'll cost like 1500 gold, but it only costs 2 or 3. I believe the cost is related to how many items need repairing; if 3 items are broken, it'll say heaps of gold, but only cost 3. If 4 items are broken, it'll say even more, but only cost 4. Dunno how this works with charged items, but they might be free to re-charge too.
Very odd bug. So the listed repair price is off? Never ever heard of that. Heck, I did a forum search and found nothing.

Median_2, always breaking new ground!

:cry:
Lanthanide";p="239524" wrote:The sell cap in nightmare could be bumped up, to like 1000 or something.
Good suggestion, how about 1K in Act 1 and another +0.5K per Act up to 2.5K?
Lanthanide";p="239524" wrote:In my gambling spree I got an amulet with 100% chance to cast slvl 21 Plague Avatar when you kill an enemy

I'm assuming that's supposed to be 'when you die'.
Uh-oh. Worst typo ever. :( I'll change it immediately in the next patch. Sadly, I can't directly change the affix because this would crash everyone with such an item in their inventory - and you can bet that whoever finds one of these will keep it. I'll have to disable the affix. Keep your amulet, you deserved it for the enormous amount of feedback you've given so far. ;)
Last edited by Brother Laz on Wed Aug 24, 2005 11:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
19.may.2007 | Adun Tori Laz.
Median XL released!
Flesyht sa ruobhgien yht etah.


y dont u play the game the way its supposta be played? -SlothNathan

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