Seven Lances for new Barbs

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Brista
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Joined: Tue Dec 10, 2002 8:51 pm
Location: London

Seven Lances for new Barbs

Post by Brista » Tue Dec 10, 2002 9:00 pm

While of course readers here need no introduction I am hoping that this write-up which I have also posted elsewhere might be of interest - partly too for mod-makers to see what happens when us players get our grubby little hands on your creative output

Many many thanks to all involved...


Seven Lances for new Barbs
by Brista


I'll assume here that you're familiar with Diablo2: Lord of Destruction. If you're not, my advice is simple. Don't try Seven Lances yet. Play the basic game out of the box and get a feel for it before moving on to what is after all a mod for advanced players

Seven Lances is a mod for D2: LoD which can be downloaded here:
http://www.planetdiablo.com/theforge/se ... nload.html
It's by Foxbat, Spiderdrake, T-Hawk, Myhrginoc, Fuzzbox and LiquidDamage

Download it and run it. If it doesn't work then request help at the forums of one of these sites:
http://www.sevenlances.com
http://www.planetdiablo.com/theforge/

It can be played in three ways

1) Single player
2) by tcp/ip connection with someone else who has it
3) on an invitation only server called Threewave administered by Mephista. If you want to join this realm ask her. She's busy and space is limited so please don't be impatient. Tell her about your Diablo2 experiences. If you play and post on the Amazon Basin, Lurker Lounge, The Forge or the Seven Lances forums and organised games then that will help so tell her about that. Threewave has higher expectations from the people who play there than Battlenet so make sure you are polite and friendly and don't steal stuff or spam other people for help

Before you start you need to be aware of major changes

Characters
You start with 60% max resists. Each time you solve the Anya quest you get +5 max resists so you'll be back up to +75% near the end of the game

Skills
The skills have been changed so that it is no longer so clear which skills are good

Combat skills
Bash: much improved. More enhanced damage%, more + damage (which gets multiplied by the enhanced damage) and more AR%. Costs more mana to use as you put points in
Double swing: bigger AR% bonus.
Leap: You need less points to get decent distance
Stun: lasts much longer, bigger AR% bonus. Very worthwhile as a second attack
Double throw: bigger AR% bonus
Leap attack: slightly bigger AR% bonus
Concentrate: bigger damage%, bigger AR%. Defence in general is more significant in 7L making this a decent choice for your main attack
Frenzy: lower AR%, much lower run/walk, more mana to use (once you have a few points in it)
Whirlwind: Interesting and rather elegant adjustment here. It no longer starts on negative damage which is very nice when starting the skill. It increments damage more slowly so that it ends up with slightly less +ed% at skill level 20. Also has a big fixed AR% bonus and a significantly lower mana cost. This might very well be an uber skill in 7L if you can support it for mana. A one point whirlwind may be viable - less mana to use in exchange for a bit less damage
Berserk: bit more damage, less time of having sucky defence, cheaper on mana unless max or near max, a little less AR. Still a great skill whether a one point PI basher or a major part of your build

Combat masteries
Masteries in LoD are bugged and give 100% critical strike even with a single point. This bug has been fixed in 7L except for Throwing Mastery so your Barb will do a lot less damage than you were used to in LoD. On the plus side items that give deadly strike are now worth using
Weapon masteries: apart from the bug fix no change, so just as fundamental as they always have been
Increased stamina: stamina remains a joke after Act2 Normal (and no more than an occasional inconvenience up until then)
Ironskin: less of a bonus which is balanced by the fact that Defence is more important
Increased speed: starts lower with bigger increments. The extra speed of 7L monsters and the many packs of missile firers make speed especially useful. I don't think anyone will need more than skill level 5, most people will just drop a point in
Natural resistance: less bonus but gear isn't so good and elemental damage is used often and hurts a lot. Essential

War cries
Howl: according to Chippydip's this skill is unchanged. However the listed effects of this skill (monster run time & distance) have never been very useful in seeing what it actually does when you put points in it (bigger radius, affects higher level monsters). Assuming it is unchanged then it does get two advantages: that crowd control is more important and that you will be closer to the monsters' levels.
Find potion: remains a one point wonder, especially with a + skills or + cries switch. Much more useful in 7L than in LoD. The chance of a mana potion is halved but you will still generate more than most people normally see. Most other classes would strangle a saint for a mana pot :)
Taunt: unchanged, another one point wonder. Very useful in Act 5. I found it particularly useful in places like the Crystalline Passage for taunting sirens from around corners so that you can deal with them one at a time from outside the line of fire
Shout: duration improved, it now exactly matches Battle Orders which is an elegant, player-friendly, piece of modding. Less defence bonus but defence is more important. More expensive to cast as you increase it
Find item: with the drop system rewritten so that more comes from horkable monsters this is a very useful one point wonder. I use it on bosses every time - it's very satisfying to get a big clatter of items and potions from one hork
Battle cry: has less effect reducing enemies' defence and damage, countered by 7L's higher emphasis on good AR and more dangerous monsters. I think that if you liked it before it's basically just as good. TrueMuppet did some research not too long ago discovering that Battle Cry and Taunt are rather ineffective at reducing damage from monsters enhanced by Might, Fanaticism or Frenzy. I think it unlikely that the mod-makers will have fixed this so don't count on it as a defence against these skills (it helps, just not much)
Battle Orders: nerfed - less bonuses and shorter duration, hard to support because of lack of mana, but still an uber skill. I advise getting it maxxed fast because it's really hard work keeping it refeshed at low skill levels. For party play BO plus normal attack is perfectly acceptable, don't worry if you can't use your combat skill
Grim ward: now has a variable duration rather than a fixed 40 second one, also a very small radius nerf. So slightly less useful as a one-pointer judged purely on the numbers but 7L is a harder game with more stress on crowd control. Overall, if you liked it before it's still fine although you'll probably need a few points in it
War cry: double damage, stun nerf, much cheaper to cast
Battle command: now gets a lot more duration per skill point. In the rather unlikely event that you have spare skill points or if you're feeling very party friendly you could develop this after battle orders so that allies do more damage. Summons and elemental spells get a significant boost from just one skill point more. Skill level 12 Battle command lasts as long as level 21 Battle Orders. Very slight nerfs in terms of costing an extra mana point to cast and a lower initial duration

Mercs
Rogues are the same. I'm not sure if they still get the lightning hose bugs. I use one and find she goes with my bash barb nicely
Town Guards initially stand around watching, occasionally hitting something if directly attacked. Then from level 18 they auto-teleport into the nearest monster which is a bit of a fudge to make them do something useful. There's some talk about removing this ability which will turn them back into walking aura suppliers which don't fight but which don't die. The auras are different. In Normal they are now
Defensive: Resist Lightning
Combat: Cleansing
Offensive: Blessed Aim
Iron Wolves benefit from improvements to most of the spells that they use. A good choice unless you're whirling
Barbs are slightly nerfed. They have Whirlwind which you think would be cool but they are NooBs with it. They're ok, I used one with a Nec and it was always up front, rarely died and seemed to kill quite a lot. Good choice for a whirler

Monsters
They're 50% faster. Even quill rats are noticeably better. Frenzytaurs are really scary.
Poison hurts. A lot. It is no longer an optional fourth resistance but as important as the others
All resistances are crucial. So is high life. From the start Fire Enchanted death explosions can one hit kill you if you neglect life and resists. Act 3 brings in attacks from normal monsters which can easily kill you - flayer shamen's infernos are very dangerous. Remember to use Taunt especially against packs. In Act 5 most of it feels like LoD's Chaos Sanctuary - big groups of ranged high damage elemental attackers who get to start shooting just before you see them on-screen. Yum!
It's doable but don't get over-whelmed, always keep a running away route open, and bear in mind that big packs of dangerous ranged attackers might be backed up by more ranged attackers so don't just charge in casually
Dolls no longer have death explosions. Yay!
There's something very nasty in the bottom of the Swampy Pit. I must admit I was quite intrigued but after 8 full rejuvs and 2 merc rezzes I ran like a zon

Gear
Ah, itamzzzzzz. They're great, tons of good interesting items, new uniques, new craft recipes, runewords etc
Have a look at this set, posted up by SNY and slaver ;)
http://www.sevenlances.com/modules.php? ... ead&tid=46

The following are much better: damage reduced by X, life regen, defence, AR
The following are much worse: charms, sources of resist all, magic find bonuses
Mana pots don't drop often (unless you're a barb, chuckle)
The most difficult concept to break is the "wow, a unique" feeling. Uniques are quite good but so are rares, runewords and even blue items. For almost any item type a really good rare is better than anything else.
The drop system has been revised so you will get a lot of good drops as you play but won't get quite such a cool uber drop from act end bosses. For us barbs I reckon a good tactic is just to play regular monsters and find item every champ and boss. Decent runes drop a lot more (or I've just been lucky)
At higher levels exceptional and elite stuff drops often
There are currently no set items except for elite ones
Base items are all re-done. Shields for instance have dire block rates until you get to the elite ones. My approach is the newbie one of if I haven't seen one before it must be good - it's working so far for weapons, armour shields etc :)
3 chip cubing swords is useful - you can get some very cool blue swords quite early on. There are lots of other cube recipes to add sockets, restore durability to ethereal items etc

Gold
Gold can no longer be amassed effortlessly by selling the first few sceptres that drop. Which is a shame because there are tons of good things to buy and gambling is a great source of rare items. You can even gamble uniques and set items
If you use skills weapons on your weapon switch do try not to hit anytning with them by mistake. They cost a fortune to repair

Tactics
Good tactics that work for you in LoD will work for you here. The monsters are more dangerous. In particular the combination of being faster, more numerous, more damaging and more varied can really hurt you when you run into a huge group of elemental shooters

Here is the basic range for my Barb
1) Smack em. 90% of fights can be won by click-locking your way through the monsters, chugging the occasional red. Damage reduced gear and max resists makes much of the game very comfortable
2) Howl em. When you suddenly get swarmed then a quick Howl and retreat works wonders. Howl stops working if monster level is greater than character level plus Howl skill level. Taking the game steadily will keep your Howl effective as well as not letting the monsters out-class you too much. In Hell I suspect this will no longer be possible
3) Taunt em. It only needs one point but wow, this skill is great. It's especially useful against ranged attackers. It works round corners and doesn't seem to wear off (if you leave the level it might). Use it on large crowds of ranged attackers from cover. Alternatively just use it to waste their shooting time
4) Howl em and Taunt em. Come ere. Go way. Come back. Go way again. Hours of mindless comedy and great target practice for your Zon mates and your merc.
5) Da blue stuff. Mana per kill things are good, mana leech is not great in 7L - since it's pretty rare and there's a bug with rounding it down. 3 mana leech is 1 (ie 1.5 rounded down) in NM and 0 (0.75 rounded down) in Hell. So mana per kill or even raw bonuses to mana. If you want to Taunt and BO turn your attack to Normal Attack instead of Bash or whatever - there are places where extra life and control of the enemy is more important than giving them a good wallop. How's that for subtle game design!

Areas to relax in
You know how in LoD you have a big fight and then you know that you can chill out and coast afterwards in many areas? It seems the 7L team can't stand this and everywhere you expect to be safe isn't...

Don't let em getcha!




Acknowledgements:
Blizzard: well I like them anyway :)
Foxbat: genius
Mephista: our gracious host
Gillias: best barb player
Usyr_Illus: webmaster
Meph, Gil, LuckyCharms, SillyGirl, Gorgonzola, Gaf, Koala - good company
Loschonorg: darkside tourist :D

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Vendanna
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Post by Vendanna » Wed Dec 11, 2002 1:07 pm

very nice an informative post ;)

but I saw some problems with certain runewords (see my other post), and probably the Barbarian mercs should benefit more with Leap Attack than with Whirlwind (this should make them worse as Tanks, but still useful and posible last longer against Act Bosses)

the Barbarian Masteries... well I had once an Idea to make them more fascinating than only ED and AR plain and simple.

the Barb masteries usually is refered to a especific Barbarian Clan that use mostly that weapon (thus they are more skilled with them, like it said in the manual) so why don't make them more nice to choose between?

I think that should be a nice Idea give/change the skill so they imbue his weapons with a Element, so you can choose the Weapon type if you like more an element than other.

since there are 6 damage types for players (Poison, Fire, Cold, Lighting, Magic and Physical) you can add one of them to a especific Mastery

example: Physical to the Throw mastery giving maybe a bit of deadly stike (as they imbue his souls with that especific damage) and ED% an AR

Poison to Swords (since they were usually the favourite) adding a % damage by x seconds

Magic to Maces, etc... but remember to put the lower damaging elements to the high damage weapons (to assure noone of the masteries is supperior to the other)as lances or Polearms.

a nice Idea that I wish may interest someone (since barbs were always hard to mod)

well, that's all for now. cheers --==Vendanna==--
"Mysteries are revealed in the light of reason."

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